Well, I tried...

A few months after my friend's dog passed, the search began for another dog. She didn't look that hard, and it was sporadic. I tried to help her by hooking her up with breeders, sharing information about health testing, stuff like that. The one year anniversary of her dog's death is coming up and someone up the street had a litter available NOW. No testing on the parents, she's never bred before, etc. The lady seemed nice and tugged at my friend's heartstrings. She's selling them cheap because all she cares about are good homes, not the money (vilifying good breeders). She's always wanted to have a litter of puppies. And my friend got sucked into it. So, now she has a puppy.

She's a smart woman and a very typical pet person. I sent her the list of health testing and suggested she goes over it with the breeder and ask why she didn't do it, just to see if she can get any additional information, and to ask about certain issues in past dogs. Anything to get the breeder talking and sharing health information. She gave me the hand and told me that she's lonely without her dog and she's getting this puppy and, of course, anything can happen with any dog so the testing doesn't matter. She is meeting the breeder at the vet for a clean bill of health (I did explain that genetic issues don't show up for months to years).

Her mind was made up and so I'm going to be happy for her and love her puppy and support her. I did recommend insurance and shared what I have and how great it is, not to say that her puppy is going to need it. What's done is done and I hope and wish that she gets really lucky with this puppy! She will take great care of the puppy, I know that, and if the puppy has any issues, she will care for her no matter what.

In being so close to this puppy search, I noticed several things. She was attracted to AKC marketplace and FB marketplace breeders. I kept trying to steer her to good breeders, but there were no pictures and no updated information about litters. No information on how to get a puppy from the breeders, either. I tried to explain that good breeders breed mostly very nice pet dogs, so she should care that that breeders do things with their dogs, but in her mind, pet people don't need show dogs so that didn't matter. Bottom like is that bad breeders made it very easy for her to get a puppy and good breeders made it really difficult. Sigh.

frustrating especially after having hard to guide them. it`s also generally frustrating how so many normal smart people don`t get the reputable breeder thing.

But also, i can COMPLETELY relate to her. We are getting closer to one year since Rocky passed. I feel i am still floundering. seeing a great puppy down the road in need of a home is just - easy. i`ve over thought the entire thing i`m almost there :P (kidding - but I am working on plan B and C)

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Originally Posted by Tanya

frustrating especially after having hard to guide them. it`s also generally frustrating how so many normal smart people don`t get the reputable breeder thing.

But also, i can COMPLETELY relate to her. We are getting closer to one year since Rocky passed. I feel i am still floundering. seeing a great puppy down the road in need of a home is just - easy. i`ve over thought the entire thing i`m almost there :P (kidding - but I am working on plan B and C)

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I imagine it would be hard with no dog. I haven't been without a dog since I got my first dog 25 years ago. But I also know too many people that have dogs with issues that I could not fathom, whether health or temperament. Either breed specific (so I'd never get those breeds) or breeder specific. Sh!t happens, but I do my best to avoid it. I had a dog once, a rescue, with so many issues and he literally made my life hell for over 17 years. I couldn't give him away (his issues - no one would take him and I didn't trust that if someone did they could handle it well) but it wasn't like it was so bad he had to be euthanized.

Just curious...is this a Lab puppy?

I try to be very clear on my website, on how to go about applying for one of my puppies. It details what to expect, to fill out my application, then an information filled email, and phone interview, etc... It's hard when I don't have a lot of litters, and don't breed often. I currently have a wait list with 15 or 20 people on it, and there is no way I can fulfill all the qualified applicants. I wish I could breed more, but I only breed when I want to keep something here for myself.

I try to explain to people, that they get the benefit of a show puppy, in the way they are bred, raised, socialized, potty box trained, introduced to crate training, temperaments of both parents, predicability of size, temperament, and appearance, looks like a Labrador, etc... etc... The point is, I don't know which puppy I am keeping until they evaluations are complete, so all puppies get the same love and care as the others.

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Originally Posted by Labradorks

I imagine it would be hard with no dog. I haven't been without a dog since I got my first dog 25 years ago. But I also know too many people that have dogs with issues that I could not fathom, whether health or temperament. Either breed specific (so I'd never get those breeds) or breeder specific. Sh!t happens, but I do my best to avoid it. I had a dog once, a rescue, with so many issues and he literally made my life hell for over 17 years. I couldn't give him away (his issues - no one would take him and I didn't trust that if someone did they could handle it well) but it wasn't like it was so bad he had to be euthanized.

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That's scary, my experience with rescues was better (even in my fosters).

Plan B and C do clearances and titles and are respected just not as elite levels as Plan A ;) one is local so i'm going to visit and assess. I had only not pursues them as they dont breed small per say but at this point i've really relaxed color and size (as long as structure and health are good).

If i were to just grab a puppy there are many in rescue right now, a few are pretty darn cute :P

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Originally Posted by Tanya

Plan B and C do clearances and titles and are respected just not as high level as Plan A ;) one is local so i'm going to visit and assess. I had only not pursues them as they dont breed small per say but at this point i've really relaxed color and size (as long as structure and health are good).

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As long as they do clearances and titles and you can meet the mom and maybe some relatives (dad too if he is local) to see if the parents are what you like, then I wouldn't worry if they are widely known and "high level". Structure and health are the most important thing - size is hard to predict, but if the parents aren't oversized, the pup probably won't be either - your best chance of small is going with a girl. For what it's worth, both my yellow girls are smaller than their mom and their dad, too. Chloe is 22 inches, the dad was I'm guessing about 23. Cookie is 21.5 and Sass is only 19.5! Weight is more about the condition you keep them in, although the amount of bone will determine some of it. Fingers crossed for you - I can't imagine what it would be like to be without a dog ... we've had at least one for almost 23 years now.

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Originally Posted by Annette47

As long as they do clearances and titles and you can meet the mom and maybe some relatives (dad too if he is local) to see if the parents are what you like, then I wouldn't worry if they are widely known and "high level". Structure and health are the most important thing - size is hard to predict, but if the parents aren't oversized, the pup probably won't be either - your best chance of small is going with a girl. For what it's worth, both my yellow girls are smaller than their mom and their dad, too. Chloe is 22 inches, the dad was I'm guessing about 23. Cookie is 21.5 and Sass is only 19.5! Weight is more about the condition you keep them in, although the amount of bone will determine some of it. Fingers crossed for you - I can't imagine what it would be like to be without a dog ... we've had at least one for almost 23 years now.

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i never imagined i'd still be dogless nearly a year out. much is my own fear and anxiety though.
Plan B1 apparently is fully spoken for (not surprising). Plan B2 the dad is super far from me so no go there ;) parents, grandparents and great grandparents have clearances (at least to a point i'm willing to be ok with). Meeting breeder and mom in a few weeks hopefully (maybe she has one of the offspring from the mom there too)?

Size is a crap shoot. Even if i went with a litter from a small mom, the pup i end up with could randomly be larger :P I realize this. And yes i'm fairly set on a female unless breeder thinks a male is a best fit and likely to not be huge. I would prefer in the 60's but low-mid 70's not the end of the world so a female from most breeders SHOULD be fine. I would likely keep my dogs much more sporting weight than most breeders.

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Originally Posted by Tanya

Plan B2 the dad is out in California so no go there

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So you don't want a puppy whose Dad you cannot meet or are you just saying you just wouldn't be able to meet him? Maybe I haven't kept up with everything you're hoping to find. Plus, I know your specifications are more, well, specific than mine were. For all 3 of our labs I've met the breeder and the moms but not the dads.

As for people you're trying to guide in their choice of pups, I tried to discourage one of my sister's friends from spending $2K on a Miniature Australian Labradoodle. Not only because, c'mon, it's a doodle, but an online look at the dogs they were breeding should have scared them away. The puppies were very cute, the sire was a really scraggly looking dog, no clearances aside from a vet saying they're healthy. Not only did they go ahead and get one puppy, a couple of years later they went back to get a second from the same breeders. Some people you're just never going to influence. At least if you get a mixed breed dog from a shelter or rescue, you know that you often don't know the pup's background. To be willfully blind to some factual information seems to be asking for problems.

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Originally Posted by smartrock

So you don't want a puppy whose Dad you cannot meet or are you just saying you just wouldn't be able to meet him? Maybe I haven't kept up with everything you're hoping to find. Plus, I know your specifications are more, well, specific than mine were. For all 3 of our labs I've met the breeder and the moms but not the dads.

As for people you're trying to guide in their choice of pups, I tried to discourage one of my sister's friends from spending $2K on a Miniature Australian Labradoodle. Not only because, c'mon, it's a doodle, but an online look at the dogs they were breeding should have scared them away. The puppies were very cute, the sire was a really scraggly looking dog, no clearances aside from a vet saying they're healthy. Not only did they go ahead and get one puppy, a couple of years later they went back to get a second from the same breeders. Some people you're just never going to influence. At least if you get a mixed breed dog from a shelter or rescue, you know that you often don't know the pup's background. To be willfully blind to some factual information seems to be asking for problems.

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the dad is too far for me to visit him ;) that in no way affects my interest in the litter! as you said dad's often not in the same kennel/home