Looking for opinions (not listening when we're not training) e-collar?

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06-30-2015, 08:30 AM
teej89

Looking for opinions (not listening when we're not training) e-collar?

Alright so my pup, Boomer, he's 16 weeks old. He knows sit and here, and I have him trained on whistle sit (1 whistle) and whistle here (2 whistles). On top of that he will sit when I put my hand up to him and "here" when I drop both hands to my sides. He knows "back" casting and we're working on lateral casting(with treats that is lol)

Now what I'm getting at is he's AMAZING during our training sessions. Yesterday I had a couple walk up to me asking where I took him to obedience school because they watched me working on his steadieness. I'd tell him to sit. Walk out 30yds throw (2) bumpers (one to each side of me) walk back to him and release him on the bumper then the second one.

ANYWAYS enough about him being good. When we're not training like out for walks or he's playin with a golden pup that's 15 weeks old it's like he doesn't hear me. This morning I let him out, and he went to the side of the yard and I wanted to go in so I said "boomer here" nothing, nothing... eventually just went and got him and took em in. Last night he was playing with the golden pup and there were other people walking by and I wanted to get him to come to me and said here and nothing, didn't even look at me no matter how much ruckus I made.

Now he is going to be a waterfowl dog and I will be putting him in hunt tests and hopefully field trials, we're in a retriever club. Is it too soon to start the e-collar(i already have one and he wears it when we train but it's off)? Hillman started it at 14 weeks I think, what are your guys thoughts for getting the here more solid when we're not training?
06-30-2015, 08:37 AM
Tanya

Sounds like your training sessions are low distraction and high attention. The dog knows it's working time, and is "on". But the dog hasn't learned to "work" in any other context.

Once the dog "undersstands" the command, you need to start proofing. Working with slowly increasing distractiosn and in new places. Make sure to take a step back when you add either new envrionments or distractions. There are three d's in training: distance, duration, distractions (which includes "new places/situations" as well as people, sounds, other dogs, birds).

Recall when a PUPPY is palying is pretty much the epic of distraction. Take baby steps to get to that.

In my books (and not a trainer nor a do I compete in field or hunt trials) - bofore you introduct the eocllar you need to keep working ont raining by working in the three d's slowly. Actually EVEN if you add the ecollar you have to work in the three D's into training. You have to practice and teach before you correct - and there are parts missing in the training here.
06-30-2015, 02:26 PM
ZEKESMAN

I will start by saying w I am an e-collar advocate. However I think 6 months is a better time. It also depends on the dogs maturity. Hillman uses very low settings. The dog can barely feel it. I would use a rope for now.
06-30-2015, 02:55 PM
Labradorks

He's a baby. He is barely trained let alone prepared to be at his best during distractions. It's not fair to e-collar a dog that is not trained to the level you are asking. Trained in backyard versus trained in a distracting area are two different things. Because a dog is trained to sit on command in the yard doesn't mean he is trained to sit at Home Depot. Training to listen during distractions is another exercise all together. You are asking too much of a puppy who doesn't even have the mental capacity to handle everything you're throwing at him. You have time so why the hurry? He's not even a real adult until he's two years old and most Labs are three before they are mature. So, my thoughts are, give him some time to grow up and be trained appropriately.
06-30-2015, 03:42 PM
windycanyon

My guess is you have entered the dreaded week/s from hell.... seems to happen sometime between 16 and 20 wks. Just chill a bit on the higher level training (I agree w/ the 6mo mark as being a minimum for ecollar training for most labs). The puppy is teething and feeling like crap right now most likely... and btw, he's still a puppy and he needs social time too. Balance is everything. Good luck! Anne & the girls (including 5mo old Ruby)
06-30-2015, 04:02 PM
teej89

Quote:

Originally Posted by windycanyon

My guess is you have entered the dreaded week/s from hell.... seems to happen sometime between 16 and 20 wks. Just chill a bit on the higher level training (I agree w/ the 6mo mark as being a minimum for ecollar training for most labs). The puppy is teething and feeling like crap right now most likely... and btw, he's still a puppy and he needs social time too. Balance is everything. Good luck! Anne & the girls (including 5mo old Ruby)

has to be it and yeah he is teething, hasn't stopped him from retrieving yet. I'll just chill out, it was just such a slap in the face when he took off yesterday and I couldn't get him to come back. Normally it was just a hey pup hey and he'd come running back. Yesterday I got the "forget you man" lol

Zeke - yeah hillman does use the lowest setting but I wasn't sure if I should give it a go. I veered off hillman now because I'm going to be transitioning to lardy at 6 months. It seems like lardy doesn't introduce the e collar until a good ways into his training either.
06-30-2015, 06:07 PM
BaconsMom

I would wait until 6 months. An e-collar is a training tool, so you need to have a solid background of good obedience first. Bacon was trained with an ecollar starting at 6 months old. Our trainer was only confident in starting e collar training after he had a great baseline of basic obedience. Stay patient and consistent. Consistency is Key!
07-01-2015, 01:13 PM
windycanyon

Quote:

Originally Posted by teej89

has to be it and yeah he is teething, hasn't stopped him from retrieving yet. I'll just chill out, it was just such a slap in the face when he took off yesterday and I couldn't get him to come back. Normally it was just a hey pup hey and he'd come running back. Yesterday I got the "forget you man" lol

Zeke - yeah hillman does use the lowest setting but I wasn't sure if I should give it a go. I veered off hillman now because I'm going to be transitioning to lardy at 6 months. It seems like lardy doesn't introduce the e collar until a good ways into his training either.

Always remember to train the dog in front of you. Resist the temptation to put your pup on a timeline based on age. I've had pups ready to go thru force fetch at 6mos, and same girl's daughter not ready til 12 mos. The maturity must be there first for them to understand what work is. The pup on my sig pic on the platform has been pretty much all "soft trained" as far as Hold, Fetch etc (similar to what Hillman is doing). Only a tiny bit of force/ collar work (and she does understand it) that didn't start til 12 mos. So far, so good. Our obed instructor took her from me the other night just for fun and started testing her on the dumbbell to take it in front, off the ground, etc, and I think she was amazed at her age how far she was. She's the youngest dog in class and the most advanced. I won't bank on my 5 mo old being there in 10 mos though because she's a completely different pup and has been raised under a little lesser structured conditions thus far.