We will be purchasing a yellow lab in the next month and wanted to gather some information on the best food and diet for the first 6-12 months. We have had labs in the past on science diet as they get older but was wondering best food as a puppy.
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We will be purchasing a yellow lab in the next month and wanted to gather some information on the best food and diet for the first 6-12 months. We have had labs in the past on science diet as they get older but was wondering best food as a puppy.
there is no "best for puppies" just "best for that particular dog".
if you are getting your puppy from a responsible knowlegable breeder talk to them about what they feed and why. most breeders keep a puppy (maybe not every litter but once in awhile) and thus have seen their puppies grow on a food - so they know what works best for their dogs. At a minimum i would keep the puppy on the food the breeder is feeding for a few weeks/month and if you are unhappy with results, you can research and change at that point. I wouldn't be in a hurry to change the food unless it's a crappy breeder feeding whatever is cheapest.
Feed what the breeder feeds. And if that's not possible, don't get caught in the hype of the boutique foods. Feed something with a good reputation like Pro Plan. I've raised all my dogs on it except my first two.
I beg to disagree; my breeder said to give him the same adult food mom was eating, the vet said to give him puppy food, after looking into it that made more sense, the brand is up to you.
Feed what the breeder is feeding for at least the first year. I raised my two on Pro Plan Sport (as per the breeder) as pups but changed their food when they became adults (around a year old). I think ProPlan has what a dog needs, but I personally didn't like the empty calories (corn, etc.), my dogs are sensitive to something in it (grains, chicken, not sure...but it went away when we got away from ProPlan) and I have found that it's hard to manage weight on that food, much like it is when a person is eating a lot of sugar (corn) and carbs. I still feed the same fat/protein as in ProPlan Sport, but it comes from meat and veggies, no fillers, and they are both lean. Every dog it different though and my boys are conformation bred and it can be difficult to manage their weight. I want them kept lean, especially the younger one who is doing field, agility and obedience and has a 24" jump height. If your dog is more field bred, your needs may differ.
Don't get on the dog food rollercoaster, whatever you do. It is a nightmare!
If you go to a reputable breeder, that you've screened thoroughly, whose dogs are successful competing in whichever venue(s) they are active in, and you presumably like the look of their dogs, why would you NOT follow your breeder's advice? A veterinarian, unless they have a particular interest or focus on nutrition, and/or breed and compete successfully with Labs themselves, is unlikely to be a better source for food info for a Lab puppy versus the breeder of that puppy (assuming you got your puppy from a reputable breeder). None of my Labradors came home at 8 weeks on puppy food. My current 3 month old was sent home on Pro Plan 30/20 and that's what he continues to eat. If you trust your breeder enough to get a puppy from them, then use them as a resource, and listen to them about how they feed their dogs. They know what has historically worked best for their lines. I love my vet, but I don't go to him for advice on feeding my puppy.
Some adult foods do not control the amount of calcium and phosphorus to the degree that puppy food does which can potentially cause some skeletal growth issues. To avoid that problem, the food should be made specifically for puppies or be an All Life Stages (ALS) food, which also has calcium and phosphorus levels suitable for puppies.
Puppies can run into some GI issues when they first come home so if the pup is doing well on the food the breeder is feeding, no diarrhea, growing and thriving, sticking to the same food can help avoid these issues, although it's no guarantee of a diarrhea free existence. (I speak from experience there :()
"Some adult foods do not control the amount of calcium and phosphorus to the degree that puppy food does which can potentially cause some skeletal growth issues. To avoid that problem, the food should be made specifically for puppies or be an All Life Stages (ALS) food, which also has calcium and phosphorus levels suitable for puppies."
Amen.
It depends on what food you are feeding. One of the Pro-Plan adult formulas (30-20 Sport I believe) is almost identical to the puppy formula. Plus, it’s not good for Labs to grow too fast, which puppy food encourages. There are some adult formulas that are not appropriate, but the ones that are labeled “all-life stages” are fine for most lab pups. Many are weaned right on to it from the beginning. All of my guys switched to adult by around 4 months.
I agree that you need to keep the new puppy on whatever the breeder is feeding for at least a few months, if not through teething, which is around 7-8 months minimum. Like others said, if you trust your breeder, trust what food they feed to their dogs. Changing foods with an 8 week old puppy can lead to chronic diarrhea, refusal to eat, and the not-so-fun food roller coaster.
To the person that decided to feed puppy food after speaking to their vet, this is not always the best advice. An all life stages food that has appropriate levels of calcium/phosphorus ratio, is just fine for puppies, especially if their dam eats it, and they were weaned on to it. Trust your breeders people. :-)
"Plus, it’s not good for Labs to grow too fast, which puppy food encourages"
Annette
believe it's the opposite; adult food encourages too fast of growth, or so they say. agree with the all-life-stage food as an alternative.
love your picture.
o.k., you're right!
Memory tells me it has to do with amount of fat and calcium in the food.
It's been 18 months since I spent time reading about the difference 'tween dog foods and the OP should do the same or believe whomever he wants to believe.
What I know is I took Rocco to the vet @12 weeks old holding a bag from Sportmix chicken and rice dog food, recommended by the breeder, and she said "I'd rather see him on a puppy food as it has all the vitamins and such he needs", never pushing any one brand. Then I did my own homework and made my own decision.
I look for higher fat in my Labs' food. 30/20 is optimal IMO, and I don't think I'd feed less than 16% fat. For puppies, the concern is not fat but moreso the calcium/phosphorus ratio. Like I said earlier, if you did your homework on your breeder and picked a good one, and you want your dogs to fulfill the physical potential of their pedigrees, why would you disregard food recommended by your breeder? At minimum, I'd at least discuss any food changes with my breeder and get feedback. A good breeder knows their lines best.
Yes—stick to what the breeder recommends. If you don't trust this recommendation, then you de facto do not trust your breeder (and should therefore find another one).
We—having done a load of research but still not really knowing anything—had purchased a bag of "Taste of the Wild" or some kind of trendy health food for Hoku. A couple days before we were to get her, the breeder sent several "puppy packets," one of which had very explicit instructions for feeding—type (ProPlan sport), quantity, frequency.
Went to pick her up, and I think we mentioned that we had "Taste of the Wild." Her response was along the lines of "you can feed her whatever trendy food you want to after the first year, but until then, why don't you trust the companies that have put literally millions of dollars into their research?"
Hoku's still on ProPlan, supplemented with fresh fish and vegetables, spirulina, and MSM.
Trust your breeder!
Not Eukanuba Lg Breed Puppy formula!
Not all puppy foods are considered equal, which is why people just need to trust their breeder's experience (given the breeder has some experience anyhow!). I remember comparing Purina Pro Plan puppy vs their adult and wondering why anyone bothered w/ puppy formula there since there was little difference. So again, just follow what your breeder has been successful with!
Gosh I know of a long time breeder whose pups were fed Purina "puppy chow"... and her pups didn't grow well on any of the foods the rest of us have mentioned here. Funny thing, she mentioned to me she thought food had become one of those epigenetic issues... she may have been onto something.
I just went thru something similar today w/ an owner of a 6mo old. Puppy is looking "portly" and she made the mistake of asking me if he looked too fat and should they cut back on kibble (this after she already admitted she can't feel his ribs). I asked how much they were currently feeding... and in addition to the Euk LBP which is what I feed/ recommend, she was adding cooked chicken, yams (sweet potatoes), beans etc. I asked why... well because that's what they've ALWAYS fed their other dogs!!! Well this is a puppy, and how the heck am I to help if they aren't bothering to follow my directions on feeding? Heck, I don't know how many calories/ fat/ Ca: P etc she's adding there w/ all the extras!!! Ughhh. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother... except should something go wrong, I'm sure I'd hear about it. :(
Hello, I've find some helpful information here in exoticonlinepetstore about what kind of Foods to Give Your Pet and How, and they have a lot of information there that can help you with your question.
LOL, Stella came in on Beneful (a rescue, she survived the experience). Anthony comes from a very good breeder who is a vet and we followed her instructions until we switched him to Fromm's and now they're both on it and thriving. For all of our other dogs they were on Purina Pro Plan and did very well. I would not mess with the likes of Windycanyon, Annette47, listen to your breeder!!!!!:-)
First off let me say I am not anti- dog breeder, the ones I've met appear to be sincere and caring people, but apparently the opposite is not always true.
Any questions on this thread are met with the same mantra " trust your breeder" or "do what your breeder says".
Slightly bias don't you think?
Veterinarians don't know anything about dog food! Eight yrs. of college and a practice seeing dogs at all stages of life gives them no insight here?
Some vets like Rocco's, have a nutritionist on staff that will analyze and give you a written report on any dog food or supplement you request.
I have left here by name the food recommended by my breeder for puppies, thinking some would google it and see what they think,
Nope, same mantra though.
I left the name of a supplement recommended by my breeder, again thinking I'd get an opinion,
Nope, same mantra though.
I hope the OP found some useful info..
actually veterinary schools spend VERY little time on food so no, a general vet that did no extra studies or research on food won't know more about general nutrition. Few vets have a nutritionist on hand (at least around here that's quite rare) that has done studies in nutrition.
Generally when people say trust the breeder it goes with "assuming you did the homework and selected a reputable educated responsible breeder". because these breeders have kept and raised MANY of their puppies. They want healthy long lived dogs so their interest is in feeding what works best for their dogs (not as many people tell me "the cheapest because they have more dogs to feed). Having raised puppy and puppy on foods they know how they grow on that food (and many have tried different ones and can compare, or saw how other puppies they bred did on other foods).
But obviously if it's "just another breeder" who is educated and knowledgable, then you probably don't want to talk to them about it no.
I think the idea is encouraging people to pick a great, responsible breeder. If your breeder doesn't know his/her lines well enough to pick a food that works, you may want to think about what other issues there are.
Bottom line, if you've picked a breeder worth their salt, you've picked a breeder whose food choice you can trust.
Biased? No; that's not—if I may—what 'biased' means. Advising individuals to pick their breeder carefully and then follow that breeder's recommendations for feeding (and training, and long-term care, and everything) is not an indication of bias. It is an indication of common sense.
As noted by Tanya, Vets spend very little time studying food or diet (ditto most M.D.s, for what it is worth). Most Vets are fairly broadly trained to care for at least two different species (dogs and cats, typically), which then involves all breeds and mixes and mutts, at all ages, and all aspects of health. This does not leave much time or space for nutritional studies.
Also, the reason we have been saying "trust your breeder" is because individual lines grow better on individual foods. The food my breeder uses grows her puppies and dogs well. Other breeders use other foods that work best for their lines. Breeders know their lines—Vets do not. The cannot. It is not their job to know "Oh, Hoku came from X breeder, so she'll do best on X food, and this is how she looks when she's healthy, but Brandy came from Y breeder, so she'll do best on Y food and this is how she looks when she's healthy" (maybe ten lbs lighter or heavier). Vets can't do that! That's not their job.
Hoku comes from very stout conformation lines. At one Vet trip, when she was about four months old, the Vet (at new one we'd not seen before) started freaking out on us about her weight. Like, really freaking out (though she never asked what we fed, or how much). I kept saying "this is her line," and finally opened up my laptop, brought up the breeder's web page, and said "here." The Vet then said "Oh. Ok. Well, this is right for her line."
When Hoku was getting a bit portly, I contacted... the breeder. I told her her weight, showed her a photo, told her what we were feeding. The breeder suggested feeding less, so we did. Because we trust the breeder. (And Hoku has slimmed down well, is about 8 bs lighter than her mother, which is what we wanted.)
I don't know why you'd expect people here to comment on your own breeder's recommendation for food or supplements, or why we'd take the time to Google such. Your breeder is not mine. I trust my breeder for my dog's feeding recommendations. That's all we have been saying. Pick a good breeder, and then trust them.
Since the OP hasn't commented on this thread after the first post, perhaps they took our excellent advice to feed what the breeder of their puppy is feeding for at least 8 months to a year. So many people with the same good advice, perhaps we are on to something :-) LOL
Mark, personally I feed Orijen, Acana has a large following also.
Here's a site to start with:dog food advisor - Bing
There's other good sites also.
Though there's nothing wrong with some grain beware of those that use it as filler just to make more profit.
Actually, I think many of us responsibly addressed the OP's question. Would it have been more helpful, knowing nothing about the OP's puppy and its situation, for each of us to have thrown out brands we all think are "the best?" The best for WHAT exactly? Which factors do people feel comprise "the best" food? It likely varies based on your experience with dogs, with Labs in particular, and what your endgame is with your current dog(s).
Where a dog comes from informs a lot about what may or may not work with the individual. Is it a city shelter rescue that may have poor gut flora, having been fed whatever food has been donated to the shelter that week? Is it a puppy from a breeder that is producing pets for sale and doesn't do health testing or compete with their dogs, so is less concerned about supporting overall health and structure for the breed? Is the puppy from a breeder with many years of experience with their particular pedigrees, and they are breeding for health (meaning they do all recommended testing for Labs) and purpose, so are very concerned about choosing food and feeding for proper nutrition and structure?
If people are getting puppies from "breeders" that treat their puppies more as commodities to be sold as pets to whomever has the cash; no muss, no fuss, then yeah, maybe that person isn't that great of a resource, so maybe you are better off (or no worse off, at least) listening to a vet, or googling your heart out, or religiously poring over Dog Food Advisor or Whole Pet Journal reviews. However, if someone (hopefully the OP) has taken the time to find a truly reputable breeder, then it makes more sense IMO to address any early nutritional questions to their breeder AND at least thoughtfully consider their advice first.
There are well-known Labrador breeder/exhibitors who are also veterinarians with extremely successful breeding/show programs. They would be the first to tell you that the average veterinarian (and they are licensed vets, so have been through vet school, and do continuing education) catering to the general pet population, is NOT a specialist in canine nutrition generally, or Labrador nutrition specifically. Puppy buyers shirking breeder advice about feeding, age appropriate exercise, training, and a multitude of other issues, then having problems with their puppies/dogs is something that is discussed regularly when breeders/exhibitors get together.
honestly this is like when I ask about supplements (specifically joint supplements) you end up with a VERY LONG list of choices which is more or less helpful. And I totally agree with the above, the question was answered as best we could.
The OP made five posts in two days and didn't come back - that happens with new posters. He came asking for breeder recommendation so didn't yet have a puppy (but does have another adult lab).
I don't think that the advice to feed what the breeder is feeding has anything to do with the breeder's lines. It has to do with what the puppy is already used to eating since we know that food changes may lead to GI upset. And no one wants to baffle new pet owners. It can't be that only one food (the one that the breeder feeds) agrees with the puppy. And it can't be that none of the more expensive foods (like Orijen or Acana) agrees with any puppy. I guess the price of these foods is the reason no breeder feeds them. Also, I see that most breeders in the US feed ProPlan, while in Europe it's Royal Canin (which, from what I've noticed here during the years on the board, you guys in the US consider "trash" food; In Europe it's considered "top"). Moreover, here in Europe we are advised to feed puppy foods as listed by the kibble manufacturer, while I see breeders on this forum recommend switching to adult foods earlier. It works for you, great. It works for European breeders too - they also raise healthy dogs.
We can discuss "complete" foods all we want, there is no such thing as a "complete" food. You may have noticed that different food brands list different ingredients, different amounts of vitamins, proteins, fat, etc. So don't get fooled. "Complete pet food" is a marketing trick. There is no consensus on what "complete" is, and we have no idea what could be a "complete" food. Pet food manufacturers just have to meet the minimum criteria required.
So in general, if you don't know much about pet nutrition, if you are a newbie dog owner, stick with your breeder's recommendation. If you are not, do what has worked for you during the past years, especially if you are not comfortable with what the breeder was feeding. Personally, I'd never be comfortable with ProPlan. I prefer to feed real, homemade food, with ingredients that I select and prepare. It has worked for me and my dog way better than any kibble he was on during the first 6 years.
"There are well-known Labrador breeder/exhibitors who are also veterinarians with extremely successful breeding/show programs. They would be the first to tell you that the average veterinarian (and they are licensed vets, so have been through vet school, and do continuing education) catering to the general pet population, is NOT a specialist in canine nutrition generally, or Labrador nutrition specifically. Puppy buyers shirking breeder advice about feeding, age appropriate exercise, training, and a multitude of other issues, then having problems with their puppies/dogs is something that is discussed regularly when breeders/exhibitors get together."
Who said to not ask the breeder about food?
Not me.
The breeder is a source, when seeking answers it's reasonable and responsible to use all sources of information.
When your breeder recommends a mediocre adult dog food for your new pup, you raise an eyebrow.
When his (untrained) veterinarian takes one look and says "I'd rather see him on a puppy food", you really begin to wonder.
When you find out the diet supplement recommended by the breeder involves kick-backs to said breeder, you get an attitude..
So excuse me if I choose not to use the mantra.
I think it is very possible that if a breeding program has only fed one food to their breeding stock for decades, there is the possibility that the dogs produced from those lines do best on those foods. Is it the only thing they could eat? Of course not, but there is likely a reason that the breeder is maintaining their program on those foods. There are indeed breeders who feed Acana/Orijen, and there are also breeders who feed raw and will only place puppies with families that agree to only feed raw over a dog's life (one well-known US breeder/judge comes to mind right away). I think buying a puppy goes back to doing research on your breeder. It's not just about finding a reputable breeder, but one who is philosophically in sync with you.
Hey Bernie,
When you or anyone's vet wants to start honoring breeders' guarantees for joint health, that's when I'll change my answer to that question. That hasn't happened yet though.
In the meantime, just suffice to say that generations of OFA clearances give a few of us the confidence that we are doing what is best for our lines.
Btw, that's a very good way to screen for reputable breeders and hopefully healthy breeding programs-- on OFA you can verify all the parents', grandparents', greats' and even offspring and half sibs and look at vertical pedigrees.
Anne
I touched on this subject just recently myself. One breeder/ judge who recently passed away told me she felt diet had become an epigenetic thing in lines. She personally fed Puppy Chow to her litters w/ great success for 30+ yrs (I forget how many now). I know of Borzoi breeders who feed Ole Roy or Puppy Chow to their growing puppies and have run into numerous growth issues if they fed a "better" food. Some foods have too MUCH nutrition for some lines. I saw that personally when I tried Canidae ALS w/ a litter years ago... had the onset of some ugly knuckling which corrected as soon as I changed to a lower Ca food. My warranty is null and void if people want to feed raw (unless it's an analyzed / approved raw diet)... because the Ca is too high in most raw diets for my growing puppies. Most of us do not do that to be difficult, we do it because we care about our puppies that much.
Well, maybe we should agree to disagree, since there is no scientific evidence that feeding one food for decades changes the lines. I do believe that it is a personal preference / philosophy of the breeder (like the one you wrote about breeders who feed raw and would place their puppies to raw feeding homes only).
Epigenetics is an interesting area of research. The dog food brand Wysong has a whole spiel about epigenetics in relation to their food. I think if people spent more time researching breeders, getting to know them, asking about their philosophies in important areas of husbandry and then seeing if those practices matched their own, there'd be less sturm und drang in general. Hope the OP matches up with a good breeder. He's been given leads on nice puppies.