Looking to adopt a Lab Puppy in Northern California

Hello everyone,

I'm a new user who is currently in search of a new Lab puppy, and I wanted to get all feedback in making sure the dog is healthy. On the same side, I'd like to stay on the cheaper side of $800 if possible, but I know that's a big ask. Especially with AKC registered pups being the staple of many breeders.

Can anyone point me in the direction of healthy lab pups that are on the better side of my price range in Northern Cal? Papers aren't necessary as I don't plan on breeding nor competing with the animal. Normally, rescues would be great, but I'm fulfilling a request of my vet partner that has always wanted a lab pup to raise. We have experience with other dogs, both purchased from breeders and adopted from shelters, so it's more a childhood dream than it is a capricious decision.

Any help would be majorly appreciated, as I'm relying on the wisdom of others to push me in the right direction.

Thank you

Be careful with putting a $ amount on a puppy. It is really expensive for breeders to do all the health screening to get a healthy sound litter. You can get lucky with pups and have no health screening .... my shelter girl turns 12 next month and has been incredibly healthy her whole life, but I have known people who have had dogs go blind at 4 (testable eye issue in labs), or have hip dysplasia and the surgeries cost $''s to fix .... both things which could have most likely been prevented by good breeding.

You will need to figure out what kind of lab you want. The bench bred dogs are more laid back and have a bigger bone structure. The field bred range in size dramatically from very petite to very tall and can be very active which may or may not be what you want.

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Originally Posted by Thirdwheel

Hello everyone,

I'm a new user who is currently in search of a new Lab puppy, and I wanted to get all feedback in making sure the dog is healthy. On the same side, I'd like to stay on the cheaper side of $800 if possible, but I know that's a big ask. Especially with AKC registered pups being the staple of many breeders.

Can anyone point me in the direction of healthy lab pups that are on the better side of my price range in Northern Cal? Papers aren't necessary as I don't plan on breeding nor competing with the animal. Normally, rescues would be great, but I'm fulfilling a request of my vet partner that has always wanted a lab pup to raise. We have experience with other dogs, both purchased from breeders and adopted from shelters, so it's more a childhood dream than it is a capricious decision.

Any help would be majorly appreciated, as I'm relying on the wisdom of others to push me in the right direction.

Thank you

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Hi there,

You would be hard pressed to find a well-bred puppy from a reputable breeder that does health clearances, and proves their dogs at that price. Prices in California are in the $1500-$2000 range. You may be able to purchase an older puppy, retiring adult, or a puppy that didn't work out for showing since many breeders run on more than one puppy, at a lower price. Sometimes breeders charge more for an older puppy that has been housebroken, crate trained and has basic obedience, so your milage may vary.

I do want to mention that your best bet for a healthy puppy is one from a breeder that registers with the AKC, it goes along with the other things that the breeder does with their dogs. Registering a pure bred puppy with AKC isn't just about breeding or competing with the dog, but supporting the pure bred fancy. AKC lobbies for breeder rights, supports search and rescue, donates money to research, etc... So the registering fees go towards good things that AKC does.

My recommendation would be to contact a few breeders near you and start a dialogue, and to start saving your money to plan for a puppy next year. Please let me know if you have any questions.

No advice on specific breeders, but I can attest that $1500-$2000 is the price range I came across when I was looking at breeders for my dogs. There was one breeder that I spoke with who was less expensive, but she gave me a lot of pause and I believe she was a backyard breeder rather than a good breeder (advertising "white labs", became extremely defensive when I asked her about testing). I'm sure there are many BYBs that also charge $2k for a puppy in an effort to look legit.
All that to say, you should screen for a good breeder rather than for a breeder based on price.

You may want to reach out to Golden Gate Lab Rescue as well. They sometimes have litters for rescue, though I'm sure the wait list is on the longer side for that. I believe they have a fee in order to get on their waitlist, but not certain. Good luck!

If you get your post count up you can receive direct messages. I got Thor from a breeder in Northern CA and did a lot of research before finding him. I found a couple of breeders I liked, and ended up going with the one where I was able to visit and meet the dogs and see their kennel facilities (it was nicer than my house....). I also talked to owners of their dogs going back over 10 years. But I agree with the other posts - I didn't find a pup for under ~$1600 that had all of the health clearances.

I ask folks to describe to me their idea of the perfect lab... looks, energy level, size, color, etc. are just a start. What function/ activity do you want to pursue outside of family companion, if any?
I have a friend in N. Cal you could contact too if you just give more details, but you really need to be prepared to pay more than what you are thinking, unfortunately. The cost of vets, food, testing etc has really gone up in the past 10 yrs it seems. Buying the healthiest pup you can is the wisest choice and a good first step in ultimately saving you money in the end.

I live in Utah. A 12 hour drive. Lots of breeders doing health testing here, with pups in the $650 to 850.00 range. P.M. me P.S. I am not a breeder and pay more than this for pups, but there is initials lie FC or AFC in front of the parents names.

It just occurred to me that this is posted in the rescue and adoption page. Are you truly looking to BUY a puppy, or are you looking to adopt a rescue? If looking to adopt, please contact the lab rescues that we vet thru the LRC, Inc. Find a Group - The Labrador Retriever Club, Inc.

Btw, I just placed an order for some very basic whelping supplies (incl dewormers, microchips etc-- no vaccines even!) and my total came to $980. Breeding is NOT cheap when done right.

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Originally Posted by windycanyon

It just occurred to me that this is posted in the rescue and adoption page. Are you truly looking to BUY a puppy, or are you looking to adopt a rescue? If looking to adopt, please contact the lab rescues that we vet thru the LRC, Inc. Find a Group - The Labrador Retriever Club, Inc.

Btw, I just placed an order for some very basic whelping supplies (incl dewormers, microchips etc-- no vaccines even!) and my total came to $980. Breeding is NOT cheap when done right.

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Don't you have in your contract that buyers should have puppy checked by a vet ASAP after pickup? I thought that was the norm, perhaps not.
If so, why are you buying supplies and apparently doing veterinarian work; dewormers, microchips, vaccinations?

Wow, I am really, really lucky to have been able to get Rocket Dog (FC/AFC sire, FC dam) for only $1750. It had to do with her being a carrier for one of the genetic labrador retriever conditions (EIC). But she's a carrier and will never suffer the disease. So we spayed her and are thrilled to have her.

There are, for sure a LOT of ways to throw money away when picking a pup. (Like paying crazy amounts of money for exotic unofficial coat colors, or getting a designer mutt like a labrdoodle.) But you gotta amortize the cost of a dog over it's life span. $2000 over a 12 year life span comes to less than 7$/month. If you can get a pup with the greatest likelihood of a long, healthy life... and one whose progenitors had were smart, trainable high-achievers, then it is money well spent.

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Originally Posted by Bernie

Don't you have in your contract that buyers should have puppy checked by a vet ASAP after pickup? I thought that was the norm, perhaps not.
If so, why are you buying supplies and apparently doing veterinarian work; dewormers, microchips, vaccinations?

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No Bernie, have no idea where you get your info from. I and many other breeders pay for all microchipping, Vet Well checks, Eye checks (yes, w/ the Ophthalmologist 90 miles away) and give dewormers (these start at 2 wks old btw!)plus a couple vaccinations prior to release. We do this because we want our puppies leaving 100% healthy, w/o questions. If we didn't do vet well checks etc, do you think we could really feel comfortable? Afterall , most of us who are serious, are really breeding our litters for ourselves first and foremost. The last thing we'd want to do is cut corners on vet checks and such.

PS, if anyone were to p/u a pup and fly it home, that pup needs a USDA Health cert in many cases too. You aren't going to get that w/o doing a vet well check.

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Originally Posted by Bernie

Don't you have in your contract that buyers should have puppy checked by a vet ASAP after pickup? I thought that was the norm, perhaps not.
If so, why are you buying supplies and apparently doing veterinarian work; dewormers, microchips, vaccinations?

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Because puppies are wormed several times before they are old enough to go home. Puppies also get their first vaccinations before they go home. Also, most breeders microchip their pups before they are sold and leave the house because this can properly identify the pups in the breeder's paperwork and also puts the breeder on record with the microchip company. I have my name listed as the "2nd contact" on the pups I bred with their microchips. If the dogs get lost and the owners can't be found, they can contact me and I'll do what's necessary to save the dog. Pups even get a first Vet Check up by a vet BEFORE they go home too. The "Vet check" after you buy a pup is so that YOUR vet can meet the dog, get them in the system, see the medical records, set up the shots scheduled and put a baseline of general health in their system. All NORMAL.

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Originally Posted by JenC

Because puppies are wormed several times before they are old enough to go home. Puppies also get their first vaccinations before they go home. Also, most breeders microchip their pups before they are sold and leave the house because this can properly identify the pups in the breeder's paperwork and also puts the breeder on record with the microchip company. I have my name listed as the "2nd contact" on the pups I bred with their microchips. If the dogs get lost and the owners can't be found, they can contact me and I'll do what's necessary to save the dog. Pups even get a first Vet Check up by a vet BEFORE they go home too. The "Vet check" after you buy a pup is so that YOUR vet can meet the dog, get them in the system, see the medical records, set up the shots scheduled and put a baseline of general health in their system. All NORMAL.

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Oh, I understand that the breeder takes pups to vet for first shots, it was also my understanding that breeder requests new owner to take puppy to their vet for a checkup to protect both parties, breeder doesn't want one to come back 2 months later claiming something is wrong with pup. I suppose it's nice to socialize also.
IMHO, microchips are overrated, there's a few assumptions along the way, but if I was to do it, wouldn't I want my name and address versus the breeder?

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Originally Posted by Bernie

but if I was to do it, wouldn't I want my name and address versus the breeder?

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Both of mine have microchips. I am listed as the first contact, the breeders listed as the second contacts. Mine also wear collars with ID information on them at all times when they are outside of the house. Should they somehow escape and either get their collars caught on something and pull free of them and keep running, or if someone were to steal either dog and remove their collars, having a microchip might help identify them by animal control, an animal shelter, or a vet when no other visible identification is available. I'm fortunate not to have had that happen but I would hope that anyone finding them running loose would get them scanned for a microchip.

Both of mine had their first vaccines, had been wormed and examined by the breeders' vets prior to me getting them. I then took them within a few days.

Got to ask, i see AKC papered puppies for 250$ in OH . My friend got one, it was a working farm. the parents and puppies looked great as per him and his wife. The pup came with shots paper work , a refund policy of if any thing is wrong on the first vet visit and 60 day warranty . I cannot tell why it is so cheap other than backyard breeder but does AKC paper even worth a penny . just curious what people think.

When i picked by gigi who was a lab/gsd mix the lady had 10 puppies and took 3 females out and helped us pick from them with some input. but gigi was was not a pure breed and was a mix so we did not care.But we did pay 400$ [pure labs are expensive as far i know] which i thought was okay . she came with all her vet check up and some 60 day warranty and some sort of vet certification.

He has had the pup for 2 months and thinks he is great. very mellow and not very high drive but just chills and cuddles unlike gigi who is naughty as hell and ate a pecan pie and raw chicken in a blink of an eye and caused trouble this weekend and had a good thankgiviing.

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Originally Posted by smartrock

Both of mine have microchips. or if someone were to steal either dog and remove their collars, having a microchip might help identify them by animal control, an animal shelter, or a vet when no other visible identification is available.I agree on the need for ID, Rocco has address and phone number sewn in his flat collar, neighbors have called me when he went to visit and play, but I don't believe if someone steals your dog they'll be dumb enough to ask the vet to scan for a microchip. Running free and picked up by animal control; perhaps, but you can and likely will locate him there with the telephone. Now, talk to me about a long range GPS chip, I might be interested. That way if someone steals my dog I can go and visit them in person.
Both of mine had their first vaccines, had been wormed and examined by the breeders' vets prior to me getting them. I then took them within a few days.

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Exactly. Took them where? To your vet? That's the question I was asking, why or what is being done twice? I need a vet, don't need a breeder to play vet.

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Originally Posted by smartrock

Both of mine have microchips. I am listed as the first contact, the breeders listed as the second contacts. Mine also wear collars with ID information on them at all times when they are outside of the house. Should they somehow escape and either get their collars caught on something and pull free of them and keep running, or if someone were to steal either dog and remove their collars, having a microchip might help identify them by animal control, an animal shelter, or a vet when no other visible identification is available. I'm fortunate not to have had that happen but I would hope that anyone finding them running loose would get them scanned for a microchip

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If someone steals your dog do you think they'll ask the vet to scan for a microchip?
Picked up by animal control, o.k., but you can locate them by calling there also.
Talk to me about a long range GPS chip, I'll be interested. That way if someone steals my dog I can and will visit them in person!

Microchips are necessary for permanent identification for doing breeding clearances for VPI (Verified Permanent Identification) Verified by the vet prior to the testing being performed (be it x-rays or echocardiogram etc...) they scan and record the microchip number. I microchip my puppies before 8 weeks, because that number goes onto their eye exam paperwork, and their health exams.

I worm my own puppies starting at 2 weeks old, (There is no reason to take the whole litter to the vets office to be wormed every 2 weeks, so I do it myself), I microchip my puppies with chips I purchased and I am listed as the implanter, My Veterinary ACVO ophthalmologist scans each puppy before the eye exam, and marks their chip number on the form as VPI. I vaccinate my puppies a few days before going home. When I take my puppies for a well puppy health check before they go home, my vet verifies the microchips, checks stool samples, and examines them, she also supports me vaccinating my puppies at home.

My vet supports me, we work together, it's not like either/or, or me playing vet. I am not sure what point you are trying to make Bernie?

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Originally Posted by silverfz

Got to ask, i see AKC papered puppies for 250$ in OH . My friend got one, it was a working farm. the parents and puppies looked great as per him and his wife. The pup came with shots paper work , a refund policy of if any thing is wrong on the first vet visit and 60 day warranty . I cannot tell why it is so cheap other than backyard breeder but does AKC paper even worth a penny . just curious what people think.

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AKC is a registering body, not an indicator of quality in any way, shape, or form. You can put two of the sickest, worst examples of a breed together, breed them, and if both parents are AKC registered, the offspring is eligible for registration as well.

This is why it is wise to shop carefully, when looking for a purebred dog.

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Originally Posted by silverfz

Got to ask, i see AKC papered puppies for 250$ in OH . My friend got one, it was a working farm. the parents and puppies looked great as per him and his wife. The pup came with shots paper work , a refund policy of if any thing is wrong on the first vet visit and 60 day warranty . I cannot tell why it is so cheap other than backyard breeder but does AKC paper even worth a penny . just curious what people think.

When i picked by gigi who was a lab/gsd mix the lady had 10 puppies and took 3 females out and helped us pick from them with some input. but gigi was was not a pure breed and was a mix so we did not care.But we did pay 400$ [pure labs are expensive as far i know] which i thought was okay . she came with all her vet check up and some 60 day warranty and some sort of vet certification.

He has had the pup for 2 months and thinks he is great. very mellow and not very high drive but just chills and cuddles unlike gigi who is naughty as hell and ate a pecan pie and raw chicken in a blink of an eye and caused trouble this weekend and had a good thankgiviing.

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As mentionned - AKC is strictly a registry. it's not worthLESS but it's not worth a lot. It says zero about health and temperament of the dogs or quality of the breeder. Breeder doesn't have to "do" anything other than ensure he buys a labrador wtih papers (full) and that he breeds to another lab with papers (full breeding rights) and then send the info to AKC about the litter so they are registered as pure bred. Remember a lab isn't a "lab" no matter what. Sometimes people buy cheap dogs and are lucky. dogs have good temperment and no health issues. but it's a gamble with the odds not on your side as parents didn't have any clearances (to know if they were carrier of anything, had good hips/elbows/eyes/heart).

Now a breeder is NOT good only by the fact they charge "a lot". a breeder is good based on what they do as a breeder in choosing dogs to breed, does clearances, proves their dogs and raise litter with the best care.

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Originally Posted by Bernie

If someone steals your dog do you think they'll ask the vet to scan for a microchip?
Picked up by animal control, o.k., but you can locate them by calling there also.
Talk to me about a long range GPS chip, I'll be interested. That way if someone steals my dog I can and will visit them in person!

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No a microchip won't help if the dog is STOLEN (unless you track them down and then you have a case against them if the dog is chipped to you). It DOES help if the dog escapes or gets lost. Shelters and pounds almost all have scanners and can call the owners right away. Finders of the dog can bring it to any vet to be scanned and you are contacted right away. VS without a chip the dog ends up at the pound or shelter or finder's house until you "track them down". I don't think that many dogs get stolen though. Many do get lost.

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Originally Posted by Bernie

Exactly. Took them where? To your vet? That's the question I was asking, why or what is being done twice? I need a vet, don't need a breeder to play vet.

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I took them to my own vet within a few days once I got them. I don't view it as having anything done twice, I view it as making sure the pup is as healthy as the breeder said and an introduction of my new pup to this new vet. Both the lab breeders we used were reputable breeders and cared for the puppies carefully before I got them, including having them checked over for health issues and their first set of vaccines. They gave me the vaccine information and information on their own vets who my vets could contact if they had any questions. I took them to my own vet to again give them a once over to make sure they seemed healthy, to find out when the next set of shots or other health care things should be scheduled, and to ask any questions I might have of the vet. If they found a health problem, I could go back to the breeder to discuss the problem and decide what needed to be done. Some folks seem to think the vets know everything and breeders know little of use to the new owner. Depending upon the breeder, that could be accurate. I tried to pick my breeders carefully. I trust my vet but I also knew the puppies had been living with and being cared for by the breeder for the previous 2 months, so they would know more about my particular puppy than the vet could pick up in a 20 minute office visit. And yes, vets have extensive training, but the breeders I picked were very experienced as well.

In my college class of 125 in my specialty, one was the valedictorian, most were reasonably smart and hard working, but then, there was also the bottom 10% of the class who graduated, maybe just barely, but they graduated and were sent out to practice what they supposedly learned. Likewise, in any class of veterinarians, there's the top 10% and the bottom 10% of the class. The bottom 10% still get to go out and practice veterinary medicine, don't they? Do I know who they are? No. I look for experienced and knowledgeable sources of information in caring for and raising my pups. It may be my vet, it may be my breeder, it may be another breeder. I don't automatically grant that any given vet is the final authority on all things animal, even if that means finding another vet for a second opinion or to switch to for primary care.

Ditto here. Pretty much to the T. My ACVO gets a bit agitated when puppies come in for eye certs at 7-8 wks that aren't chipped because they want that research paper trail intact on every puppy that goes on to be rechecked annually.

And further, I think some puppy owners start to get overwhelmed by all the vet expenses and may forget to chip altogether. So yes, Bernie, ~$250 of my expenses were microchips. It's just not something I'm willing to forego on my puppies at this point because they do allow a "finder" to track the pup back to me if the owner isn't reachable for some reason. I've done rescue for a goodly number of years and you'd be surprised at how many dogs (nice dogs) end up in the pound w/o permanent identification. All for something that may cost a breeder as little as $10 (considerably more if I have to pay the vet to inject it).

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Originally Posted by Shelley

Microchips are necessary for permanent identification for doing breeding clearances for VPI (Verified Permanent Identification) Verified by the vet prior to the testing being performed (be it x-rays or echocardiogram etc...) they scan and record the microchip number. I microchip my puppies before 8 weeks, because that number goes onto their eye exam paperwork, and their health exams.

I worm my own puppies starting at 2 weeks old, (There is no reason to take the whole litter to the vets office to be wormed every 2 weeks, so I do it myself), I microchip my puppies with chips I purchased and I am listed as the implanter, My Veterinary ACVO ophthalmologist scans each puppy before the eye exam, and marks their chip number on the form as VPI. I vaccinate my puppies a few days before going home. When I take my puppies for a well puppy health check before they go home, my vet verifies the microchips, checks stool samples, and examines them, she also supports me vaccinating my puppies at home.

My vet supports me, we work together, it's not like either/or, or me playing vet. I am not sure what point you are trying to make Bernie?

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Originally Posted by windycanyon

Btw, I just placed an order for some very basic whelping supplies (incl dewormers, microchips etc-- no vaccines even!) and my total came to $980. Breeding is NOT cheap when done right.

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Now here it appeared you were being overwhelmed by the cost.

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Originally Posted by windycanyon

Ditto here. Pretty much to the T.
"I look for experienced and knowledgeable sources of information in caring for and raising my pups. It may be my vet, it may be my breeder, it may be another breeder."
? You have never agreed with that in the past.

And further, I think some puppy owners start to get overwhelmed by all the vet expenses and may forget to chip altogether. So yes, Bernie, ~$250 of my expenses were microchips. .

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I would like to meet the folks that pay $1500+ for a pup and get overwhelmed by vet expenses, maybe $100. total for checkup, shots and heartworm meds..
Some like myself see little use in a chip, we're not so dumb that we forget.

Bernie,

No, I'm not overwhelmed by the cost. That is one small part of my breeding expenses this fall. You have no idea what you are even talking about and it's clear you just come on to needle everyone.

Get a life........ :p

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Originally Posted by Bernie

Now here it appeared you were being overwhelmed by the cost.



I would like to meet the folks that pay $1500+ for a pup and get overwhelmed by vet expenses, maybe $100. total for checkup, shots and heartworm meds..
Some like myself see little use in a chip, we're not so dumb that we forget.

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Originally Posted by silverfz

Got to ask, i see AKC papered puppies for 250$ in OH . My friend got one, it was a working farm. the parents and puppies looked great as per him and his wife. The pup came with shots paper work , a refund policy of if any thing is wrong on the first vet visit and 60 day warranty . I cannot tell why it is so cheap other than backyard breeder but does AKC paper even worth a penny . just curious what people think.

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AKC papers are really nothing, only proof of parentage of the dogs. It's got nothing to do with quality and how the pups were raised. Those dog parents probably have no clearances, pups are probably raised in the barn....all depends on what you want. I can tell you this, my cheapest lab had the MOST problems, and cost me the most money in medical bills all after the first year of age.

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Originally Posted by Tanya

No a microchip won't help if the dog is STOLEN (unless you track them down and then you have a case against them if the dog is chipped to you). It DOES help if the dog escapes or gets lost. Shelters and pounds almost all have scanners and can call the owners right away. Finders of the dog can bring it to any vet to be scanned and you are contacted right away. VS without a chip the dog ends up at the pound or shelter or finder's house until you "track them down". I don't think that many dogs get stolen though. Many do get lost.

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Agreed. I live in a residential area and on nextdoor.com, I see anywhere between 2-4 posts a day for lost dogs and cats in my neighborhood. I live in an HOA and they even have a microchip scanner, so if the person that finds the lost pet calls the security company that patrols the area or they take the pet to the clubhouse, the pet can be scanned for a chip before the pet is taken to the shelter.

The chip is the Hail Mary when you turn around and see the door open, then do a head count and find one of your three guys is AWOL. I found a dog, a big, gorgeous chocolate lab who is now our "house lab". He did have a chip (that had been inserted at a Vet Clinic in another state about 400 miles away) but the chip was never registered.

It is such a gut wrenching thought that your dog goes missing. It's the stuff of nightmares. I only have my dogs chipped so that I will have a little bit of hope in the event that were to happen.

But oh, I almost have had to stop reading Facebook. I'm like... you left your dog loose in the backyard and came home hours later??? Your dog ran out the front door and wouldn't come back when you called? If I leave my dogs out when I'm gone, they're within a fence, within a fence. If my dog wouldn't come when called, he'd drag a leash around to at least give me a chance to catch him.

It just breaks my heart. I will never say never. I might be a total bonehead some day and think I shut a door when I didn't. That's why my dogs are chipped.

For Bernie: When I was a child, my father (also named Bernie, btw) planted a new apple orchard. One night right after the planting was done, some thieves came in and dug a dozen or 2 or 3 (???) trees up and stole them!!! Unbeknownst to the thugs, the trees had some unique "identities"... they were specially produced to be semi - dwarfing so had an "interstock" grafted in which was color coded etc. The State Police came in and were given a quick lesson on how to identify the special trees should they discover someone trying to sell them. As I recall, it only took a day or 2 and the thugs were caught and trees were recovered before they all died.

This is basically why microchips come in handy for our pets too. It provides the owners w/ PERMANENT, POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION. So not only if someone steals or otherwise "claims possession" of your property as their own can you prove ownership, but also for the before mentioned positive identification for health clearances. Maybe that means nothing to you but for some of us, it's gold. Hope that helps.

Microchips are also required to show proof of rabies vaccination when traveling to certain places outside of the continental United States.

The original poster hasn't made any more posts since the very first one last month. It's hard when people come, ask one question, and either don't check back or just disappear after getting an answer or two.:confusion:

Obviously the rest of us have no problem carrying on a prolonged conversation among ourselves anyway!:amuse:

Yup, this post was defiinitely hijacked. Surprise, eh??? ;)

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Originally Posted by smartrock

The original poster hasn't made any more posts since the very first one last month. It's hard when people come, ask one question, and either don't check back or just disappear after getting an answer or two.:confusion:

Obviously the rest of us have no problem carrying on a prolonged conversation among ourselves anyway!:amuse:

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