How long does it take to see a change after switching food?

[zd262]

Tammy - I totally agree! I find the 1% statistics very hard to believe. Unless we're all just within that unlucky 1%. I will PM Jeff to find out more after talking with my vet.

[Maxx&Emma]

Tammy - I totally agree! I find the 1% statistics very hard to believe. Unless we're all just within that unlucky 1%. I will PM Jeff to find out more after talking with my vet.

Unfortunately there are vets that assume you will agree with anything they say without doing any research. I have found a few that really need to brush up on their listening skills, lol!

[windycanyon]

One of the vets I sold a pup to (from coincidentally, the only litter I've had giardia in!) said he's had some VERY tough cases in his practice that just keep testing positive over and over again. But, he's in suburban Seattle and many of his clients are dog park types. Suffice to say, I think the bottom line is that they continue to be re-exposed to it and maybe the giardia is getting immune to the normal treatments. As I recall, his pup had a relapse at ~12 wks or so (went home clean, thank god... as that would have been embarrassing to me), but cleared up pretty fast. I suspect my pups were exposed here after playing outside in the rain. I had had a training friend over w/ her dogs who had a problem w/ giardia and most likely, they "gifted" me w/ the nasties. I had 2 more litters in the next few months, and just did a general panacur (5-7 days, can't remember) at ~6 wks and didn't have a problem w/ the other pups.

So I would guess the reoccurence issue really depends on where you live and your doggy habits (dog parks, etc).

[zd262]

WindyCanyon - we are a little stumped about where he keeps picking it up, but it must be from himself. Unfortunately we are being as careful as we can be. Basically the only way we could be more careful is if we bleached our yard everyday (which we can't because it's a rental). Here is what we do (if other people have suggestions PLEASE let me know!):

1. Only let him poop in a part of the yard that receives the most direct sunlight (according to CDC, giardia can't live as long in direct sunlight). This helping that much isn't very realistic, but we do it anyway.
2. Pick it up IMMEDIATELY: a little difficult because it is so liquidy but we do our best, using paper towels to wipe up residue
3. Don't let him back in that area for awhile (until the sun hardens any extra residue and we can pick it up
4. Wipe his paws & his butt with baby wipes: Yes we wipe his butt everytime he poops
5. Very frequently clean all of his bedding & toys as well as just the inside of our house and couch, etc

Other than our yard, he goes to this park nearby. It's not a dog park, it's just a regular park. So there are dogs there sometimes, but we keep him away from any poop we see.

[windycanyon]

Maybe this article will be of help: Portland Veterinary Specialists > Library > Gastrointestinal > Giardia in Dogs


So how about adding psyllium husks to your pup's food to at least slow down the movement thru the system? I buy it by the lb bag (ground) at my health food store for my puppies and add it to their food if I see any loose stools. Lord knows once pups get to exploring outside, they always manage to find something they aren't supposed to eat!

[zd262]

Thank you for the article! The psyllium husk is definitely an interesting idea. He poops 1-2 times per day and it is usually a really long poop with a lot of straining and walking around while in "poop position" with the very first bit being somewhat firm, then a lot of liquid, then all of the straining and more liquid. Seems like the fiber in the husks could be helpful.

[zd262]

Alright I just spoke to the vet (who I don't 100% love, but there aren't any other options where I am right now)

She wants to us to do another round of the metranidozole and continue on the fortiflora WHILE doing a food change. When I questioned the reasons for the food change, she said he might have a food sensitivity, but that even sticking with the same foods (ex. Chicken), but a different brand can help. So that was somewhat confusing information. She said that she doesn't believe he needs any other supplements, etc besides the FortiFlora probiotic which he's been on for a month now.

She thinks I should change him to a sensitive stomach formula & recommended Hills or Purina & said to use a puppy formula. It looks like ProPlan sensitive stomach is only an adult formula - is that an issue?

Thank you everyone so much for your advice during this, there's so many options its really overwhelming!

[Jeff]

Just an FYI, zd pmed me. Hemi's puppy years on the forums were long lost in the great Forum crash

I hadn't seen this thread or wasn't keeping up on it because I just thought it was food change thread. Didn't realize this was a lot like Hemi's issues.

My advice I gave zd262 was to change foods to a low ingredient one California Natural specifically. I thought Fromm came out with a limited ingredient food but I couldn't find it. Then I also recommended FidoVite over Forta Flora. I know we has several discussions about this before. Both are pretty serious probiotics Hemi didn't respond at all to the Forta Flora but Fido vite I noticed a change pretty shortly after taking it. I know a few other still use this and helped someone that was dealing with the strangles as well. Also it has been known to help with Giardia shedding. No I am not like pete and think it cured everything but I do think it is better probiotic than forta flora. Hemi doesn't take it anymore.

Then I recommend having an external lab check a fecal they will pick up everything that may be present. Again expensive but this will tell for sure if this Giardia is gone. My vet began to doubt themselves being able to detect parasites because they couldn't find any in Hemi

Then after that I would suspect it is going to be the bad gut bacteria that is taking over. No matter how much probiotics. So I recommended talking to vet on dosages but if i remember correctly Hemi at that age was
250mg Amoxicillin 10 days
250mg Metronidazole 15 days
When the Amoxicillin runs out
Then Sulfasalazine, I used a pill cutter to give 3/4 of a tablet as they only come in 500mg form. for 10 days then 1/2 tablet for 5 days after.

Metronidazol is a great drug however for Hemi and a few others it kills off the good stuff as well and the bad takes over before the good can reestablish it's hold this is where the Sulfasalazine comes in.

Oh and the Diamond recall. Was this big huge fiasco recall. Expanded Recall of Diamond Pet Foods Dry Dog Food | Food Safety News

[Maxx&Emma]

Just an FYI, zd pmed me. Hemi's puppy years on the forums were long lost in the great Forum crash

I hadn't seen this thread or wasn't keeping up on it because I just thought it was food change thread. Didn't realize this was a lot like Hemi's issues.

My advice I gave zd262 was to change foods to a low ingredient one California Natural specifically. I thought Fromm came out with a limited ingredient food but I couldn't find it. Then I also recommended FidoVite over Forta Flora. I know we has several discussions about this before. Both are pretty serious probiotics Hemi didn't respond at all to the Forta Flora but Fido vite I noticed a change pretty shortly after taking it. I know a few other still use this and helped someone that was dealing with the strangles as well. Also it has been known to help with Giardia shedding. No I am not like pete and think it cured everything but I do think it is better probiotic than forta flora. Hemi doesn't take it anymore.

Then I recommend having an external lab check a fecal they will pick up everything that may be present. Again expensive but this will tell for sure if this Giardia is gone. My vet began to doubt themselves being able to detect parasites because they couldn't find any in Hemi

Then after that I would suspect it is going to be the bad gut bacteria that is taking over. No matter how much probiotics. So I recommended talking to vet on dosages but if i remember correctly Hemi at that age was
250mg Amoxicillin 10 days
250mg Metronidazole 15 days
When the Amoxicillin runs out
Then Sulfasalazine, I used a pill cutter to give 3/4 of a tablet as they only come in 500mg form. for 10 days then 1/2 tablet for 5 days after.

Metronidazol is a great drug however for Hemi and a few others it kills off the good stuff as well and the bad takes over before the good can reestablish it's hold this is where the Sulfasalazine comes in.

Oh and the Diamond recall. Was this big huge fiasco recall. Expanded Recall of Diamond Pet Foods Dry Dog Food | Food Safety News

Thank you Jeff, for helping Bubba's mom. I searched high and low for the regimen you had used for Hemi without success. Maybe some one could sticky this as it seems to come up fairly often.

[smartrock]

Bubba's Mom, some breeders tell owners that puppies can switch to adult food at 4 months of age or so. When Lark was having trouble with diarrhea she was about 4 months old and our vet said it didn't matter if she stayed on puppy food or not. The calcium and phosphorus levels/ratio in the PPSSS appears to be about the same as it is in the puppy food, although it is classified as an adult food, not even an all life stages food. Does Hill's even have a puppy formula for sensitive stomachs? The search for the "right" food can make you want to pull your hair out.