New Lab puppy problems

[Scoutpout]

hang in there - i have a furry landshark as well, lets see, he's 18 weeks or is it 19 weeks old? and i have a 10yr old who wants NOTHING to do with him, so i don't have that wonderful outlet of another dog to play with. However, Trigger does watch Scout to see what he does, when he does it, and how i react to it, so there is definitely learning taking place that isnt actually initiated by me.

Biting, oh yes. Lip curl like Barry suggested, having something appropriate like a nylabone (teething cloth -supervised only!) always handy to stuff in that little shark mouth instead of hands, legs, jeans, slippers etc. Look in your baby's mouth- i feel so bad for Trigger after seeing what i saw last night - ouch , so sore looking with big teeth coming in all over his little mouth!

Wild time of the day - yes, oh yes - later evening about 9pm (or 10pm if we've got late dog school class), they're just like cranky toddlers. i will sit on the couch at that point and throw something for him over and over and over again, and eventually he gets tired enough to lay down. If it weren't for the fact i can finally cuddle him then beside me on the couch, i would crate him for my sanity!

Training, otherwise known as mind exercise - it really does make a big difference to work their brains as well as physical exercise. they have the attention span of a gnat, so short (very short, ending on a good note) sessions working on 1 thing seems to work best. I try and do something in the yard before heading in to work, then if i can spare a few minutes part way thru the morning (if they're at work with me) a quick outside trip and a "fun" (training) session. Then again at home for lunch break. they're usually left at home (Trigger crated) for the afternoon. When i get home, out into the yard for some hard running. then settle before dinner, then dinner with some short training before kibble is served. Post dinner digestive rest in the crate, then outside, then likely off to classes.

Classes. Seriously. even if you have a super-busy schedule and can't seem to fit in training on your own, going to class MAKES you work for that hour with the pup. you'd be amazed what they can get out of even that once-weekly session. Trigger the baby is in a class Monday night and Tuesday night. My 10yr old is in class (still! yes, he still LOVES going to classes at 10) Wed night and Thurs night that pup comes along to -more experiences for him. And they both get Field training on either sat or sun.

Other than the land-shark bit, Trigger is actually a fairly easy puppy. Yes, he's busy. but housetraining went well, he know asks to go out (i've just cursed myself....). He is great in his crate and the expen at work. I've lost one pair of reading glasses, the remote has a few good scratches on it, i have some scars on my hands, but nothing i wasnt expecting. Seeing him delight in new things, be so PLEASED with himself when he knows he got a command correct, and be so darn HAPPY and excited about things is priceless!

[coldwetnoz]

Since the breeder let the pups go at 6 weeks, I doubt they would be a good source of advice.

The breeders just wanted to get rid of their puppies and get their money. With 2 6 week litters all crawling with fleas, I understand how they felt. But of course none of us would allow conditions like that. I'm just glad Lucy was healthy and lucky we got her home and de-flea-ed her and gave her her own home.

All these posts are interesting and very helpful but of course, not everybody agrees on everything. What works for one, doesn't always work for all. We are definitely handing her things to put in her mouth (toys, sticks, etc) whenever we are the target of her teeth. Works real good.

are you saying that you can't walk your pup without her going for your legs, and because she's biting at your legs you terminate the walk?

I'm saying this: Normally, we have a good walk with me throwing an occasional stick or ball to distract her from my legs. On a good day, this works and she enjoys her walk and so do I. But if she is in a hyper mood and won't leave my jeans legs alone, I know it is fruitless to continue the walk and head for home without speaking to her anymore. These problems are getting fewer and fewer, thank goodness.

Update: Yesterday as I was heading for the house, I decided to take Lucy's ball and give it one more throw. She loves to fetch. As I went to throw it, Lucy jumped up in anticipation and her very large tooth caught my right arm and gashed it. I had to go and get 4 stitches in my arm. Not Lucy's fault so there was no reprimand. I have quite a collection of small gashes and scars from former gashes but this one was a doozie! Maybe we could have a "scar contest"! lol

[TuMicks]

My youngest is 3 and a half and I may have psychologically obscured her puppyhood in my my mind. I guess my hubby and I got snagged and bitten-ish. We've never had to get stitches, I'm pretty sure of that.

The impulse of most people on the board, I think, is to use distraction and give a toy or something else to divert her from biting you. And that is good and obviously works when it works. But, I don't think that is what we've always done. I believe over the years and through a whole gaggle of labs, I'll admit right here that we have been pretty harsh with jumping up and biting.

Maybe people will strongly disagree... but at some point (usually when the pup has actually gotten teeth on me producing a scratch or little tear) I'll just try to get my hands on her and make it punitive.

The snout squeeze that Barry mentioned is very good. Along with a loud, right near her face, looking in her eyes, NO!!!

When pups or dogs jump up on me, they get a knee in the chest and NO!!!

If I'm sitting in the den and getting harassed, (and other methods of distraction aren't working) I play momma-dog and grab by the scruff and (this is probably significant) get her front legs off the floor. Dogs do NOT like to have their contact with the ground messed with. When I lift a pup's front feet off the ground by the scruff, I get in it's face again and yell NO! while shaking her a little. Then abruptly drop it.

If I'm walking a dog and they're harassing me, I step on the leash as close to its neck as possible and try to pin their ear to the ground, and yell NO! (Obviously this will not work with a harness. You'll need to put a collar on her.)

I think the take home is that if the pup's mother had had more time with the pup, she would not have put up with it being a total butt. Other dogs don't let their litter-mates puncture their skin. They just do what they need to do to keep their sibling in line.

And I would bet my last dollar that when pup is in a feisty mood, and jumps or mouths you... and you use these methods, they're going to repeat the "attack" (and it isn't really an attack, it's rough play) but they'll repeat it. I stop it abruptly again. And again. And again. Until the message is received in it's little brain.

Does that make sense? Maybe some board members will disagree with me. But I think you might need a range of responses for your pup's behavior.

[silverfz]

Sorry about the gash. as i agree with the lady above. you need to find what works. i think the challenge is the pup did not learn any bite inhibition from its siblings by 6 weeks. again even though was a bit scrapped up me and my wife never let the kids or even us get injured to that level as you. Once we found a trainer who directed us to using of lavender oil, the nicks and scrapping went down alot. I still had some minor stuff but nothing requiring stitches.

when they stop jumping knees work and also a step into them and crowd them which also unbalances them. i also will pop the lavender oil right near her nose for a quick smell. sometimes i did have to grab her mouth and put a drop. the outcome is she lets us even at adults handle stuff to be taken from her mouth as its something she used to as a puppy. small toys, destroyed toys , bones , dead decayed animals.

settle is the first command we worked on, pull the leash on the floor and put your feet on it as close to her as possible. she has to lay down. this is the absolute as you need her to settle down when you need watch tv , eat dinner and even in your case address your wounds. you are stronger so you can hold the leash down and force a settle command. give her treats when she does.

[annkie]

I'm gonna chime in as well. I have zero tolerance for biting. I don't care whose fault it was or if it's play. I just don't tolerate it. If the puppy is 8 weeks then fine. I try the gentle methods that have been mentioned above. But my last lab was close to 1 yr old and still mouthing. Yes, he was playing. But when those big teeth hit your hands it hurts! We eventually wrestled it out and I put my hand around his mouth and said NO BITING! And I held it there until he calmed down which took a couple of minutes. No squeezing. No lip under teeth. He just didn't like the lack of control he had. That was the last of it. If he didn't again I repeated it without the wrestle. Later on in his life, if he got mouthy again (which was rare and very playful but I didn't like it) I just said "no biting" very calmly at this point and he immediately stopped. I think the gentle method is good to start with. But if your dog is more persistent like mine was then I move along to "I'm the boss" method.

The jumping was resolved with immediately telling him to sit. You have to anticipate this. He would get excited around new people and I would tell them to walk into him and tell him to sit. He only got pet when he sat. He got fed when he sat. He got a toy when he sat. Everything had to be earned. Personally, I don't want to hit a dog in the chest. I know that may work for some.

Also, I found an hour at the dog park helped A LOT! Jules would be significantly more calm for a day or two after an outing at the dog park. Let other dogs set yours into her place.

[Labradorks]

I don't mean this to sound rude, and I'm only saying this because you truly seem like an intelligent and reasonable person. If I thought otherwise, I'd post some links to good rescues in your area to surrender her to. I also realize that you probably posted your original posting in a moment of frustration. Puppies can be tough! If you bought a puppy from a questionable, unethical breeder when it was likely legally too young to leave the litter, you made the decision to deal with the health issues and behavior issues that stem from these types of irresponsible breedings. These puppies were created for $$$, not because the parents are healthy or because they have sound temperaments or because the two of them would create puppies that take the best from each parent and possibly even out anything undesirable. Labs are great dogs and even the worst ones are usually not that bad (relatively speaking). It's very, very likely that your puppy will turn into a lovely adult dog over time. But, you went into this knowing that you were not getting the best puppy -- temperamentally, physically or health-wise -- that you could get. In a sense, you rescued the puppy and with every rescued dog comes work undoing what has been done and dealing with the outcome of a an irresponsible breeder. So, you have a challenge on your hands.

(Note: I do not agree with purchasing a puppy to rescue it because as long as the breeder is able to get rid of the puppies and make money, they will continue to breed. If people stop purchasing these puppies and instead make the breeder surrender them to shelters and rescues where experienced professionals can examine their health and temperament, adopt them to appropriate families and be a resource for issues -- and yes, they WILL get adopted -- then these breeders will simply stop breeding.)

One of my favorite blogs is, It's a Puppy Not a Problem, which I think just puts everything into perspective in a situation like yours. I personally LOVE puppies, even naughty ones. If I had my way, I'd get a new puppy about every 3 - 4 years. I feel like this is a blog a person could go back and read whenever they are feeling overwhelmed or frustrated. It's a baby and babies are not born knowing how to deal with humans. Just like children, it's a process, and it doesn't happen overnight.

I also like the Ian Dunbar free ebook series Before You Get Your Puppy and After You Get Your Puppy. Dr. Dunbar does a real service to puppy people by offering these great books for free as PDFs. You can purchase them as books as well. I like the PDFs because of the "find" function.

My puppy methods are different, but like the methods described above, you have to do it right the first time, no nagging and you must be consistent. I'd also add, you must be fair. If your puppy is having a tantrum there is no purpose in fighting him, just put him down for a nap in his crate and throw some sort of food chew toy deal in there with him to give him something to do while he's falling asleep. I've never seen a kid at the store stop screaming when he got spanked for having a meltdown. Don't take the kid to the store when he should be sleeping and don't try to play with or train the puppy when she should be napping and don't expect the puppy to be sweet when they are teething, either.

The issue I have with muzzle grabbing and tooth-lipping is that it's often done incorrectly and for a lot of puppies, it makes them come at you harder because it winds them up. It can also cause defensive biting. I also don't want my dogs to distrust me or fear me when I need to handle their muzzles or their mouths. Will any of these things happen for every dog? No. But being on a message board, not seeing the puppy's general temperament, I don't think it's wise advice for everyone.

For biting I simply ignore the puppy, shove a toy in his mouth and then go back to giving him attention. I also don't sit on the floor with him nor do I ever play with my hands. Teaching a puppy tricks with a clicker and food is also something to do when puppy is bored and chewing on you. Sit, drop, sit up, spin, bounce (when he's older), bow, back up, paw, wave hi, platform, etc. As far as going on a leash, can you use food to lure the puppy so she is not biting? Not sure of your situation, but I personally spend the first six months leash training in the house and yard so that my puppies are trained to loose leash walk before we go on walks in the real world. If I need to get to the car or to a building I carry or lure until puppy is ready to walk nicely. Maybe she is just not ready for walks yet? Could she be stressing up? Sometimes when dogs are stressed they get kinda crazy and don't have a lot of emotional control -- hysterical sort-of. Hard to say without seeing it.

Kneeing a dog for jumping is also not something I do unless it's some strange big dog and I'm trying to keep protect myself and my space. For jumping I give them an "instead of" behavior. I prefer to tell the dog what I want, not punish him for what I don't want. If the dog is trained to sit or lay down to visit, he can't jump. So, I use food and condition a sit instead. Just reward heavily for what you want and ignore what you don't want, but also try to set the puppy up for success. Depending on the dog or puppy, I might step on the leash and reward for four on the floor.

Finally, you should get your puppy in a class. Puppy K is a good place to start. The Star Puppy classes are pretty good. From there, you have your basic obedience classes. If you want to go further, you can do tricks classes (which you can get titles for now), the CGC, agility (even just the foundations; dogs usually love it) and more.

[TuMicks]

Ah... YES! Classes. Can't recommend it enough. You're going to find people/pups who either have the same difficulties you have (and that will relieve you that these issues are encountered commonly) and/or you'll find people who are doing great with their pups and you can learn from them. It's a win-win.

I don't recommend my harsher methods as a first recourse. By all means go to class and find some system or solutions that are best tailored to your dog. I don't disagree with anything that's been posted here. But when push gets to shove... you have a range of things you can do.

Most of all... before I gave up on my dog and rehomed it... I'd do anything reasonable and humane and get help from classes, dog trainers and classes, AND behaviorists. (That 3 and a half year old dog???? Yes, ended up taking her to a behaviorist to get help with her dog aggression.)

Also, some of the biggest Lab fanciers on this site will probably tell you that their first Lab was bred catch-as-catch can. Mine was totally back yard bred. She ended up being Qualified All-Age. I still have the silver trophy she won at the Atlanta Retriever Club in the early 80's.

Stay strong. Stick with her. It will pay off.

[Meeps83]

I'll chime in with recommending negative punishment. My parents have a 9 1/2 month old demand barker. Annoys me more than just about anything. The trick is to take away what they are after. A walk, you, a toy, ice cubes, play time.....either remove them for 10-15 seconds or remove he object until they are giving you a desirable behavior. When our pups got bitey we put them in a forced time out. It took us away from them but it also gave us a chance to cool down before we could escalate.

Good luck with Lucy!


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[silverfz]

On a another note. We started training before her rabies shots at ,16 weeks. Once we got parvo and other shots .She went to training.

Getting rabies at puppy social where other dogs are upto date with shots is a risk in took.

We took her camping too,where she met alot of dogs.again the campgrounds check up to date on shots at entry so we were fine letting her play on dog parks and interact with other dogs.

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[annkie]

I wonder if you can take a video of your walks. It's easier to suggest solutions when we can see the behavior.


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