Obstinate puppy!! Is he becoming a teenager?

[xracer4844]

Your tone makes it sound like it is your way or the highway....

Then I respectfully apologize

I stand by my methods because they have been proven. I won't let this happen in the future. New here still figuring things out.

[doubledip1]

Barley just turned 4 months and is teething and generally being a pain in the butt at times. He would come when called before - but now (at times, usually he complies) he will basically sit and stare at me when I tell him to come. He will immediately come if I have a treat - but I do not always have one nor do I want to always reward every behavior with a treat. What do you suggest I do in this situation?

I would keep him on a long line until he comes 100% of the time every single time. I would use treats and slowly wean off. He is a puppy. You will need to practice this again at 10 months, 15 months, etc. Puppies have selective hearing and they want to do whatever is the most fun to them at that time. I would keep treats with you until he's 100% on the recall and then not allow him off-leash in an unfenced area until he's 100% with the recall without treats.
It might take a few months. Patience is the most important thing. He and you will get there.

[Labradorks]

In re-reading my post, I also want to mention to end on a positive note every. single. time. So, in my examples when I say that I will play fetch with my other dog while the one not paying attention is on a down-stay or kenneled, after a few minutes I will bring the naughty dog out and try again. If it still doesn't work, I go back to the down-stay or kennel, and try again. (However, with my dogs, it always works.) And then I keep the session short and end on a positive note. I do not grab the dog and say "OK, now it's your turn and you'd better behave this time!" and then drill him. That would make him hate training and more than likely, he would shut down. You've really got to make it fun and exciting for the dog and make him want it bad. When I train, I don't train until everyone's bored and not paying attention; I stop while my dog is still wanting to train or play fetch or whatever. For field work, they get limited fetches so it's a real treat! That's why it's important to keep your sessions short but frequent.

First though, you have to make sure your dog knows what you are asking of him. And, if something should go awry, like your puppy's recall, start from scratch and treat him like a tiny baby puppy. Run away when calling, make it a game, put a drag-line on him, make that the way he gets his meals by grabbing a handful and calling him while running. Talk about a good time for a puppy! When he's 100% in your house, do it for a week in the yard, when he's 100% in your yard, do it for a week in your drive-way and work up to a PetCo, Home Depot, public park, etc. Go to a local dog show match and practice on the grounds. Always use a long-line in an area where you won't clothes line the public though.

We are having a hard time with the heel and though I've been doing it with my pup since he was 8 weeks and he has three titles by that age of 1 year and one week, it's not good enough, so we are starting at square one. Currently I am only doing a take-off. Literally one to three steps from a sit then treats or a ball and a party when he does it right. That's all. It's just what you have to do sometimes!

[Meeps83]

I think find a way that works best for you. I trained 2 Alaskan Malamutes that were in no way food motivated. In fact, they were not motivated by anything except for not training. For Maverick, my intention was to use lots of treats and long leads, but he is (for now anyway) motivated by me. Treats help, but I don't treat for everything. In fact, when training recalls the thing that has worked best for him was my excitement that he came and the bit of playing we did afterwards. Also, try calling him and running away from him. This doesn't work for everyone, but generally the puppy will want to chase after you. Whatever you do, do not chase your puppy. He will learn that he can make you come to him instead of the other way around. Just figure out what Barley loves and use it to your advantage.

Keep in mind that everyone will have different advice and different methods. Try things that each person suggests. If you do not like everything they suggest, try what you like or are comfortable with and hybridize it to fit your needs. Have you taken Barley to obedience classes yet? And is he getting a lot of exercise? Maverick works on commands better if he's had a good bit of exercise before and during training. Plus he loves going to class. Right now we're in another puppy class, but at Barley's age he could do either puppy class or beginner obedience. Remember, you aren't limited to just one class. Really, you aren't limited to one facility or one trainer either. We're with our second training facility and I know that at least one other pup in the class has done the same thing. It gives us a variety of ways to do the same thing or achieve a wanted behavior, plus there are different puppies to play with.

[charliebbarkin]

If you are having trouble with your recall, whether you are just teaching this or you are revisiting it, here are some tips to help reinforce the command.


First, take ten minutes a day to go for a strict training walk. Put your dog on leash, use this to focus on heeling, sitting at stops, and throw in some random obedience drills. For example, walk a bit, do a down stay, walk to the end of your leash and say 'heel' to get your dog back up to the heel position and continue moving. Stop in a parking lot and use each line marker to stop and do some puppy pushups (down-sit-stand in whatever order you choose). Continue your walk and intermittently, without warning, quickly start to walk backwards (continue to face the direction you were walking in). As you step back, call your dog, get eye contact, say 'come'. You want your end result to be your dog sitting nicely right in front you at your feet, looking up at you. Reward with praise and/or treats. Do this maybe 5 or 6 times throughout your training walk. Do this every day no matter how comfortable you might be with your dog's recall.


Secondly, twice a day, take ten treats or pieces of kibble. Stand next to your dog or in front of your dog, anywhere near your dog, and say his/her name. Once you get eye contact, say good and reward with a treat. You want to get that eye contact on the name. Increase the duration that your dog keeps eye contact with you. As soon as you get eye contact, tell them how good they are, keep the eye contact and treat/reward after 2 seconds, 3, seconds, 5 seconds, etc. Do this every day, no matter the age of your dog. It really works wonders.


Once you have a solid recall on leash, continue to work off leash in your home or yard. Start practicing on leash with stays in public/busy places to proof your stay and your recall. Once you have mastered this, get yourself a long line (30 feet is good) and start practicing with this. With the line you are able to make corrections much easier/faster than without. You can even use this while you are out for a hike/off leash walk and stop for a short training session using the long line. Once you have mastered this you can move off the leash and work the recall as much as possible. Be sure to ALWAYS praise the dog regardless of how long it took them or how difficult it was to get them to do what you wanted. As soon as they do the command you have asked, tell them they are good!


Remember to offer life rewards when training a recall. If you are practicing in a safe area, you can do your recall then release to let your dog play again. Otherwise, you can get into the habit of leashing up your dog and taking away all the fun, which will create a dog that won't want to come and get leashed up when he is called because he knows it means play time is over. You want your recall to mean really great things, great rewards etc. It's good to leash them up randomly, then unleash and release them again to keep them guessing.


Another good tool to have is a solid stay. If you can get your dog to do distance sits, downs and stands and ask them to stay you won't always need to rely on a recall to back them off of a distraction. Put them in a solid stay (I prefer the sit stay so that they aren't vulnerable should another dog approach them in a down and the stand is usually the easiest to break) and that will give you time to come to your dog rather than always calling them to you.


Lastly, I like to also teach an emergency recall. This is for those times when you just don't trust that your recall is going to be rock solid and you desperately need your dog to come back to you. This recall is taught to be light and fun. No formal sit required, no immediate leashing up, a collar grab is permitted. I have learned to train this two ways, one way you use the same, unique treats every time you use the command, the other is just that you jackpot with whatever you want. You can chose to do either as long as there is major reward for this every time you use it.


Emergency Recall:
Grab a handful of treats. While your dog is distracted or playing or in another room, you shout out a word unique to you. We use 'cha-ching' because it sounds like winning a jackpot. You can say the word once or you can repeat the word over and over, whichever you'd like. As soon as your dog gets to you, you reward with your jackpot treats. You can do a collar grab and say 'gotcha' while you reward. Practice this 3x in the morning and 3x at night. Eventually you can just do this once a day, then once a week.


You can proof this several ways. You can train it in public places. You can train it at home with a 'helper' (spouse, friend, child, etc). Have the helper hold treats while you yell your unique word. You want your dog to know the helper has treats but still come to you anyway, so at first you should also have the same treats and offer them as soon as your pup arrives to you. Once this is proofed you can have only the helper have treats, and once your pup heads toward you, have the helper rush to you and offer the treats to the pup.


This is something where I think dog parks can be helpful. You can bring your dog in to proof your recall. The area is fenced and there are lots of distractions. It's even better if you have a controlled play group with people/dogs that you know so you can allow your pup to play either before or afterward. If you are leery of dog parks you can just utilize this place for your training purposes and avoid the dogs altogether.


Remember the three D's. Distance, duration and distractions. Once you've mastered a recall at a certain distance, add some more time or distractions before you add more distance again. And repeat.


Good luck, I hope this was helpful to you!

[Tanya]

reward isnt just food. as mentionned above use real life rewards. as an example during a play date call the dog to you (once you are there in your training of course and pick your time) and prwise then send back to play as a reward. anything your dog likes is a real life reward. maybe after a recall training session (with long line) play one of your dogd favorite games as a reward on the last recall.

[Snowshoe]

How about some ways to get him to recall with no words at all? And no, not a whistle either or a hand signal. Because, as mentionned above, I did not want to use my recall word, sound or hand to end playtime I found some tricks to use some of the times. If you want to try some here they are:

• Turn your back.
• Walk away.
• Run away.
• Pretend to be very interested in something on the ground.
• Pick up a stick and just hold it.
• Dig a hole with the stick.
• Play with the stick (or flower or piece of grass)
• Act like you are having a great time all by yourself.

My puppy would come to see what was so interesting. Sometimes I would play with him then leash him up, sometimes, most times, I would just play.

I'm not averse to food treats but I think the word "reward" better describes what I do and can include play, a throw of the ball which allows him to run right back away from me, a tug a belly rub, a big hug. Always smile. I must say, the husky in our obedience classes who would only respond to belly rubs as his reward took a lot longer to train than the dogs who accepted food. We were weaning off the food while that poor owner was working from dog lying on the ground belly rubs to dog standing up belly rubs, it was tortuous just to watch her, poor woman.

And, as to whether this is the start of the teenage times, no, I don't think so. I swear more people have come on here in despair over their 9 month old than any other age. I'd say worse is yet to come except you are on the ball and acting now so probably for you it won't get worse. Well, maybe not too much.

[Labradorks]

I'm not averse to food treats but I think the word "reward" better describes what I do and can include play, a throw of the ball which allows him to run right back away from me, a tug a belly rub, a big hug. Always smile. I must say, the husky in our obedience classes who would only respond to belly rubs as his reward took a lot longer to train than the dogs who accepted food. We were weaning off the food while that poor owner was working from dog lying on the ground belly rubs to dog standing up belly rubs, it was tortuous just to watch her, poor woman.

One of Linus' rewards is that I allow him to jump. Not on me put up and he can touch my hand with his nose. Not necessarily recommended, but another example of a reward that's not food. ;-)

[Snowshoe]

One of Linus' rewards is that I allow him to jump. Not on me put up and he can touch my hand with his nose. Not necessarily recommended, but another example of a reward that's not food. ;-)

Oh yeah, I forgot jumping. And I allow contact which is why I'm always dressed like a bum for training class, 'cause I know I'm going to get dirty. I call it HUG.

[Georgie]

Barley isn’t coming when called because he doesn’t realize that you are the boss, and there isn’t a choice involved. Unfortunately, when you call him to you and he just looks at you and doesn’t come, in his mind he’s saying “no food?, nothing in it for me?, why on earth would I get up and go over there”. If you call him offering food, he is going to run to the food because he is food-driven, but he doesn’t care that you called him – he just wants the food. Unfortunately if you do not show ....

Positive reinforcement as part of operant conditioning is NOT this at all and what you describe is a very cursory understanding of animal behaviorism, a bit like when we treated animals as beasts that needed to be tamed!!! I man, I am boss, and you will do as I say. Again, it harks back to times where we related to animals from OUR perspective and not theirs....the anthropocentric viewpoint is a very dated and misinformed standpoint.

As others here have described, reward as such can be anything and if used in combination with classical conditioning can be just you clicking your fingers or whatever. The most sophisticated and progressive part of using operant and classical conditioning and not a fear-based strategy is that you are developing a bond of unbelievable trust, loyalty and obedience based on a dogs naturally innate traits. You actually teach obedience through these methods. Again, DISCIPLINE and OBEDIENCE can be taught effectively with operant and classical conditioning.

We are not teaching a dog linguistic understanding of language which is what many people think when using a fear based model...again, dogs are not babies that develop into adults. That is why, thanks to pioneers in science we first started to understand that we as humans could communicate with animals by using operant conditioning, ie. associating a reward with a behavior, with the reward then having the ability to be PHASED out.

I'm more impressed with people that have trained using progressive methods that respect a dog for its innate qualities of wanting to be our best friends and work companions than used a discipline approach based on fear and forced behavioral training.