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  1. #11
    Senior Dog Maxx&Emma's Avatar
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    If your house has siding on it I know many a bored puppy/dog that has removed and ingested the siding.

    Although it may seem logical a dog would be happier outside than in a crate most are just really bored, hence the barking. Try giving her a frozen Kong when you crate her. My 2 love bananas, apples and a little plain yogurt or green beans, carrots and some cottage cheese. It keeps them busy for a while and when they were puppies they often didn't finish the Kong before falling asleep!
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  2. #12
    Senior Dog Sue-Ram's Avatar
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    You may want to read this thread as well. Can't Entertain Himself?
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  3. #13
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    I'm glad I asked

    To be clear I wasn't planning on just popping her out there and leaving for hours. The idea was to leave her for short periods of time when we can't keep a close eye on her in the house (usually 30 minutes or less, maybe 45 on rare occasions if she's doing well). I was under the assumption she would prefer to be outside with room to walk around and sniff and smell as opposed to being in her crate where all she can really do is sleep. The outside area I have in mind is a cement space between our house and the neighbors (about 20 feet long by 4 feet wide). Our house is on one side and a wood fence on the other (which I would put some type of screen on so she couldn't chew on it). There's nothing dangerous she should be able to get into if left in that space.

    She's okay in her crate at night when we're in the same room sleeping, but she doesn't like the crate at all when we have to put her in when we leave the house. We don't really put her in the crate very much at all when we're home during the day. We just keep a close eye on her. Since she doesn't like her crate (other than at night when she's "okay" with it) I was thinking the outside run would be better for short periods while we're home.

    Is she really too young to be left outside alone for short periods of time?
    The problem is, she won't walk around and sniff. She will bark, dig, cry, destroy (it's amazing what a Lab can destroy when they are desperate or filled with anxiety).

    If I put any of my Labs outside while I am inside, they sit on the stoop and cry. I typically do this if I am mopping or similar. If I lose track of time (anything more than 15 minutes but less than 30) they eventually give up and destroy something. I have been lucky that the plants they ate were not poisonous and the holes they dug were not under my fence.

    There have been studies conducted about the problems dogs face when left outside alone. Guess what breed they used to conduct these studies? Labs. They develop really bad habits as they keep themselves busy and deal with the overwhelming anxiety of being separated from their home and people. Digging, barking, fence fighting, eating things they shouldn't and some OCD behaviors as well like fence running. Also, a Lab can scale a six foot fence when they want to. Just ask my neighbors! Their seven year old black Lab does it all the time when left out alone. He goes out and eats road kill. The other day he brought home a neighbor's chicken that he killed in their front yard.

    They are NOT outside dogs. They are people dogs. Just crate train her.

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  5. #14
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
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    I don't like long crate time either. My Vet believes it's injurious to mental and physical health. What we did might be an option for you. Put the crate, door open, inside a bigger pen. I suggest NOT an x-pen as they can be quite flimsy. My OH built ours, very sturdy. For one puppy we gated off our kitchen but puppies can do a lot of damage in your kitchen too. My puppies chose a corner to bathroom in. That was not a regular thing, but sometimes you just can't get home in time.

    Geez, Labradorks, one of these days your neighbour's dog will be road kill himself. Poor dog.

  6. #15
    Senior Dog Maxx&Emma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowshoe View Post
    I don't like long crate time either. My Vet believes it's injurious to mental and physical health. What we did might be an option for you. Put the crate, door open, inside a bigger pen. I suggest NOT an x-pen as they can be quite flimsy. My OH built ours, very sturdy. For one puppy we gated off our kitchen but puppies can do a lot of damage in your kitchen too. My puppies chose a corner to bathroom in. That was not a regular thing, but sometimes you just can't get home in time.

    Geez, Labradorks, one of these days your neighbour's dog will be road kill himself. Poor dog.
    My dogs were never crated for longer than a few hours at the most but I don't quite understand how crate time can be emotionally or physically injurious, can you explain your vet's theory? Maxx has not had a door on his crate for well over 2 years yet he prefers to sleep in there at night and often naps in there as well. It is where he takes his most treasured items to hide them, it is his "safe" spot! I tried putting it away once and he was frantic looking for it.
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  7. #16
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx&Emma View Post
    My dogs were never crated for longer than a few hours at the most but I don't quite understand how crate time can be emotionally or physically injurious, can you explain your vet's theory? Maxx has not had a door on his crate for well over 2 years yet he prefers to sleep in there at night and often naps in there as well. It is where he takes his most treasured items to hide them, it is his "safe" spot! I tried putting it away once and he was frantic looking for it.
    I'd be interested in hearing this as well. I guess a question would be, what is long crate time? That could differ from person to person (and dog to dog).

  8. #17
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
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    I think it would be a good study for a Vet student. Mentally because they are stuck in one spot without stimulation or opportunity to interact with people, dogs or, heck, even things like toys since it's not safe to leave most toys with them. Physically he said urinary tract infections in any age once old enough for control and joint growth in young dogs due to lack of movement. And then wild running after being immobile for hours and not stretching or anything when let out. He meant crating practice of a crate only big enough the dog can stand up, turn around and lie down and dogs left for a normal workday of +8 hours. If people saw animals at the zoo in small cages like that for hours they'd complain. My Vet sees a correlation between an up tick in neuroses, urinary tract infections and joint problems and long crating in such crates. I guess I should clarify it was a previous Vet who has since retired.

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  10. #18
    Senior Dog Maxx&Emma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowshoe View Post
    I think it would be a good study for a Vet student. Mentally because they are stuck in one spot without stimulation or opportunity to interact with people, dogs or, heck, even things like toys since it's not safe to leave most toys with them. Physically he said urinary tract infections in any age once old enough for control and joint growth in young dogs due to lack of movement. And then wild running after being immobile for hours and not stretching or anything when let out. He meant crating practice of a crate only big enough the dog can stand up, turn around and lie down and dogs left for a normal workday of +8 hours. If people saw animals at the zoo in small cages like that for hours they'd complain. My Vet sees a correlation between an up tick in neuroses, urinary tract infections and joint problems and long crating in such crates. I guess I should clarify it was a previous Vet who has since retired.
    I can see some sense in his thoughts. Even when Maxx just naps in his crate I always make him stretch when he comes out, it was something I taught him as a puppy along with "shake" when he is wet before coming inside. I would not personally want to leave a puppy crated for 8+ hours, adding a pen to the crate is an awesome idea if prolonged crating is necessary. As long as you can keep the puppy safe that is what matters most, at least to me.
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  11. #19
    Senior Dog dxboon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    I'm glad I asked

    To be clear I wasn't planning on just popping her out there and leaving for hours. The idea was to leave her for short periods of time when we can't keep a close eye on her in the house (usually 30 minutes or less, maybe 45 on rare occasions if she's doing well). I was under the assumption she would prefer to be outside with room to walk around and sniff and smell as opposed to being in her crate where all she can really do is sleep. The outside area I have in mind is a cement space between our house and the neighbors (about 20 feet long by 4 feet wide). Our house is on one side and a wood fence on the other (which I would put some type of screen on so she couldn't chew on it). There's nothing dangerous she should be able to get into if left in that space.

    She's okay in her crate at night when we're in the same room sleeping, but she doesn't like the crate at all when we have to put her in when we leave the house. We don't really put her in the crate very much at all when we're home during the day. We just keep a close eye on her. Since she doesn't like her crate (other than at night when she's "okay" with it) I was thinking the outside run would be better for short periods while we're home.

    Is she really too young to be left outside alone for short periods of time?
    Spaces that seem "safe" for an unsupervised, often bored and anxious puppy, are often full of things to destroy and ingest. Many a Lab puppy has eaten through siding, drywall, wood planks, etc. Also, it's pretty hot outside right now in California, depending upon region. Puppies are not adults, and are more sensitive to temperature.

    No puppy initially is "okay" or "likes" their crate if they know the alternative is howling and then getting released to roam around the house with their people. If you really can't stomach crating your puppy for 30-45 minutes, then it would be infinitely better to set-up a secured expen inside.

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx&Emma View Post
    I can see some sense in his thoughts. Even when Maxx just naps in his crate I always make him stretch when he comes out, it was something I taught him as a puppy along with "shake" when he is wet before coming inside. I would not personally want to leave a puppy crated for 8+ hours, adding a pen to the crate is an awesome idea if prolonged crating is necessary. As long as you can keep the puppy safe that is what matters most, at least to me.
    I’ve never been a fan of prolonged crating, either, and fortunately our lifestyle makes it so it’s rare we are gone for that long. We have an enclosure just as Snowshoe described for our two puppies now, and since we raised them from birth, they are litter box trained and have a crate, safe toys, and a litter box in the pen. Even so we don’t confine them to that any more unless we are leaving the house, or otherwise can’t supervise (after all they need to be taught how to behave in the house as the goal is not to need to be crated for their entire lives), and the litter box is just for emergencies as we are in the process of teaching them to go outside. We are going to start working on crating them separately in a few days when my DH has time to lug one of our extra crates upstairs (I hurt myself in a car accident last week and can’t lift anything that heavy), but it will be nice to know that for longer periods, they can have safe larger space to hang out in.

    Here’s a picture of it from a couple weeks ago when we first set it up. The floor is a vinyl remnant we got at Home Depot for <$30.

    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
    Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015

    Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009

    And remembering:

    Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

    And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014

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