Biting taken to a whole new level

[ZoeysMommy]

You are describing nothing that is out of the ordinary. First off you are trying to many methods to curb the behavior. You need to pick one method and everyone needs to stick with it. My black female was the spawn of satan and her behavior peaked about the same age. I recommend you use toys as a replacement when the biting begins and firmly tell him no bite. When it escalates, put him in his crate for a forced time out and stop with the spraying, lip curling, etc. Zoey reacted very badly to physical contact such as lip curling, it only made things worse and made her more excited. And spraying things like water, bitter apple is not going to work

[Maxx&Emma]

I agree with everything that has been said and will add I think your puppy needs exercise. I understand not wanting to expose at this age but you need something to wear Murphy out! Set up play dates and get in to a class ASAP. If you can't start at Petsmart for 2 weeks is there not another option where you live? I can not stress enough how the right amount of exercise and play can help during this time frame. Even getting him out to places like Home Depot, etc where he can meet and greet would help. Don't forget puzzle type toys and hide and seek games, working his little brain will help tire him out as well.

[zd262]

Definitely agree about the exercise. Since it sounds like most of the areas around you are very dog-centric and you don't feel comfortable risking it (which is totally fine!), you need to find another outlet. If Murphy is outgrowing his naps, its his age but also because he's not tired enough! Bubba is 5 months now and I wear him out 3 times a day. He basically sleeps the whole time in between. In the mornings we play fetch, at midday we walk (a lot of loose-leash practice is going on at our house right now), and in the evening he plays with other dogs (he's 5 months now).

A lot of petsmarts & petcos have puppy meet ups so that could be an option. Also you could drive him somewhere that doesn't have so many dogs? That's mostly what I did before Bubba could be let outside, drove him to a very low-risk area.

I don't have much advice for the biting because Bubba basically just outgrew it probably around 3.5 months. Physical corrections like lip curls did nothing for us and made it worse though. He spent A LOT of time in his x-pen until he learned not to bite.

[zd262]

And I can really tell if I didn't wear him out. For example this morning we didn't stay out to play because he was getting picked up by a dog walker to go to the beach with some of his doggy friends. So instead of spending the morning napping like he usually does, he unrolled an entire roll of toilet paper, jumped on the counter, spilled my oatmeal (and ate the spilled parts), and paced around and around the room. This is all really out of character for him! Or maybe it's his true character and I just don't see if because he's too tired haha

[xracer4844]

This all sounds like normal puppy behavior. To me, more than anything it just sounds like you aren't sure how to show your pup what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable behavior while using the correct techniques as well as displaying the correct body language. Inconsistency, and not being able to understand the pup and his behavior is most likely not helping the situation either. This isn't a criticism...it's normal, which is why I am a firm believe in classes no matter how experience you are. I work with dogs on a daily basis, and I still benefit from classes - having more eyes than your own is hugely beneficial...

There is of course the social aspect of training classes which is also so healthy for a pup. I don't/will never support big box store training, however sometimes it is better than no training at all.

[Labradorks]

Definitely let him play with dogs you can trust with owners who are good with their dogs. He should be fine as far as vaccinations. No strange dogs (and definitely no dog parks) and just one adult a time unless you know the dogs and owners really well and everyone is well-managed.

A puppy that lunges at you like this will most likely bite when you do the lip curl, as you have experienced. I am not absolutely against that type of correction but many people will do it incorrectly for one, and second with puppies like yours, I have seen it escalate just like this. So, now you need to work on getting him OK with touching his mouth without biting as you will, at one point, need to be able to check his teeth, tongue, muzzle, etc.

For a puppy like this, I'd ensure that he is tired. Not just physically, but mentally. Shaping games work well (touch, platform and disc work are all great and exhausting).

[kimbersmom]

Kimber was a piranha puppy; I started the sticky at the top of the Puppy section because it was the behavior that drove me to tears, repeatedly. If you haven't looked at it recently, go back to it. Like others said, pick one method and just keep at it. You will think, "This can't be normal. Something must be wrong." Most likely, nope.

Kimber bit and bit and bit until she was 5 months old. Then her adult teeth came in and all of a sudden, the months of saying "No bite" seemed to click and she just stopped.

I would definitely pursue doggie playdates with dogs who have had their shots.

[barry581]

I agree normal behavior at the bad end of the spectrum. Only extra advice I'll give is keep a collar and short leash on him at all times. You made a couple comments that you try to grab him and he can avoid it. The collar and leash should help you get him under control. They can really be slippery little buggers, and once they figure out how to avoid you, it's game on.

[PinkDragon14]

You are describing nothing that is out of the ordinary. First off you are trying to many methods to curb the behavior. You need to pick one method and everyone needs to stick with it. My black female was the spawn of satan and her behavior peaked about the same age. I recommend you use toys as a replacement when the biting begins and firmly tell him no bite. When it escalates, put him in his crate for a forced time out and stop with the spraying, lip curling, etc. Zoey reacted very badly to physical contact such as lip curling, it only made things worse and made her more excited. And spraying things like water, bitter apple is not going to work

I guess your female and Murphy are best friends LOL The lip curling makes him stop for maybe a second and then he comes right back at you with more force. Around what age did she begin to "calm" down a bit? (By calm down, I mean stop with the behavior)

I agree with everything that has been said and will add I think your puppy needs exercise. I understand not wanting to expose at this age but you need something to wear Murphy out! Set up play dates and get in to a class ASAP. If you can't start at Petsmart for 2 weeks is there not another option where you live? I can not stress enough how the right amount of exercise and play can help during this time frame. Even getting him out to places like Home Depot, etc where he can meet and greet would help. Don't forget puzzle type toys and hide and seek games, working his little brain will help tire him out as well.

Classes start on September 6th and when we went in to sign up, we had just missed the last August class by a week and a half (ugh). Would the puzzle games be ok to use with a puppy? I can just see him getting aggravated and ripping it up LOL Also, do all Home Depots usually allow dogs? I've heard of this before, but I've never actually seen anyone around here take their dog into the store. We have a Lowe's up the street, but I'm not sure of their policies regarding dogs

Definitely agree about the exercise. Since it sounds like most of the areas around you are very dog-centric and you don't feel comfortable risking it (which is totally fine!), you need to find another outlet. If Murphy is outgrowing his naps, its his age but also because he's not tired enough! Bubba is 5 months now and I wear him out 3 times a day. He basically sleeps the whole time in between. In the mornings we play fetch, at midday we walk (a lot of loose-leash practice is going on at our house right now), and in the evening he plays with other dogs (he's 5 months now).

A lot of petsmarts & petcos have puppy meet ups so that could be an option. Also you could drive him somewhere that doesn't have so many dogs? That's mostly what I did before Bubba could be let outside, drove him to a very low-risk area.

I don't have much advice for the biting because Bubba basically just outgrew it probably around 3.5 months. Physical corrections like lip curls did nothing for us and made it worse though. He spent A LOT of time in his x-pen until he learned not to bite.

We live in a mostly wooded region. We have a lot of wooded parks/walking trails, rivers, ponds, etc. around here. I just don't want him picking something up, but at the same time, I don't want him having built up energy. I'm not sure what low-risk areas we have, but I'll check into it. I'll also have to look into the puppy meet ups. Those should be safe for now even without his last set of shots, correct?

This all sounds like normal puppy behavior. To me, more than anything it just sounds like you aren't sure how to show your pup what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable behavior while using the correct techniques as well as displaying the correct body language. Inconsistency, and not being able to understand the pup and his behavior is most likely not helping the situation either. This isn't a criticism...it's normal, which is why I am a firm believe in classes no matter how experience you are. I work with dogs on a daily basis, and I still benefit from classes - having more eyes than your own is hugely beneficial...

There is of course the social aspect of training classes which is also so healthy for a pup. I don't/will never support big box store training, however sometimes it is better than no training at all.

I've never raised a puppy from 8 weeks before. Our last lab was around 6 when I remember interacting with her, and obviously 6 years old is a LOT calmer than a 15 week old pup. I just can't wait for these classes to start. Hopefully it'll give me a new way to see the situation. The big box store training is pretty much our only option - the trainers/classes around here are EXPENSIVE! (I was shocked at how much classes can be). The trainer that the vet recommended was $150 for a 2 week session...ouch!!

Definitely let him play with dogs you can trust with owners who are good with their dogs. He should be fine as far as vaccinations. No strange dogs (and definitely no dog parks) and just one adult a time unless you know the dogs and owners really well and everyone is well-managed.

A puppy that lunges at you like this will most likely bite when you do the lip curl, as you have experienced. I am not absolutely against that type of correction but many people will do it incorrectly for one, and second with puppies like yours, I have seen it escalate just like this. So, now you need to work on getting him OK with touching his mouth without biting as you will, at one point, need to be able to check his teeth, tongue, muzzle, etc.

For a puppy like this, I'd ensure that he is tired. Not just physically, but mentally. Shaping games work well (touch, platform and disc work are all great and exhausting).

Their dogs seem to be calm (but of course, I can only see across the street), but definitely I'd test the waters with him before letting him play freely. He's getting *slightly* better about me touching his mouth. I try to do it when he's chewing on a toy or dozing off. I wanted to see if any of the razors had fallen out yet...sadly not LOL I hate to wish the puppy stage away, but I just can't take the biting anymore!

I can say one thing though. Before we got him, I had the lowest pain tolerance ever. Now, my pain tolerance has increased quite a bit. I guess that's one plus!

[windycanyon]

Consistency. Biting is a big *NO* here (I am probably more tolerant on the jumping up than most, but not biting!). I do bite inhibition in my litters (think 6-10 sharks) usually starting about 5 wks and curb it there. Some puppy owners who think they are going to ignore it end up seeing the behavior return but mine don't...

Sometimes you have to get a little tough to get thru to certain puppies (really depends on the litter/ lines and if people have no experience w/ working lines, they won't get it). You are not going to ruin them, believe me. Be firm but fair. He bites, he gets corrected and I'd not hesitate to sound the proverbial buzzer and put him in time out to settle down. I too vote no on Big box training. Are you sure there isn't a kennel club or dog training group around or even a member of such who could help you? I field a lot of calls personally and will help folks privately for free whenever I can. Many are to the point of frustration as you are, and yet all they really need is to give their pup a little more mental stimulation in life. Good luck. Anne