Biting taken to a whole new level

[Snowshoe]

Be very careful with the treadmill. Have you heard the rule of thumb for exercise? 5 minutes of forced exercise per month of age allowed twice a day is the one I went by. Forced being anything on leash, straight line, constant pace, hard surface. You can see the treadmill fits right in there on two counts at least. Straight line and constant pace, bad for growing puppy joints. I'd also be very cautious of letting puppy decide when it's enough. They will go and go and go till it's too late. An older dog will too, and will hurt tomorrow. The puppy will hurt in a couple of years when damage starts to show up.

[Kelly]

I didn't have time to read this whole thread but I thought I'd tell you that my puppy is also a bit like this. He sees me as a play toy sometimes. It gets better. He's now 18 weeks and it's starting to subside. If you got him as a young puppy, younger than 8 weeks then he may not have learned bite inhibition from his littermates. I mistakenly got Bones at 7 weeks and will never do that again. I will wait until they are at least 8 weeks old. I also found mine was bored and needed more exercise. I went outside of Petsmart and found training classes for him but the most important thing that helped was letting him play with other dogs. We have a fantastic doggie day care that I started taking him to this week and that seems to be a godsend. He was allowed to play with dogs where he learns socialization skills. He's been much calmer this week also. The vet told me they were safely protected after their 16 week shots so you should be good to let him interact soon. Hang in there! There is hope.

[Meeps83]

When you are telling him what kind of voice are you using? Is it a screeching high pitched voice or a no-nonsense, deeper, and more gruff voice? It may be the inflection in your voice that he does not respond to and also why he responds to your father.

When Maverick does something he shouldn't (his current fixation is stealing pillows and running around with them) I take a wider stance I.e. Hands on hips and leg spread a little and give him "the look"and tell him to give. He knows the difference between that and when I'm exasperated or don't really mean the command.

As as far as repeating commands goes, we did hand signals for everything before the voice command. The concept with the hand signals is that puppy doesn't understand the word but he does understand your hand going up or down and will want to follow it. Once the hand signals are learned you can correlate the word with the hand signal so that he makes that connection. When just learning the word puppy might not understand so the hand signal is backup. Once the word is learned if the verbal command is not followed immediately you can 1) wait it out for a few seconds (like 3 so that he doesn't forget what you're doing 2) bribe....but be careful with that so he doesn't always expect a treat if he waits a little bit to do what you want or 3) back it up with his "down pat" hand signal. You can wean him away from treats by only treating immediate behaviors. Eventually there will be no delay and no double commands. He'll just do it.

As as far as redirecting crazy behavior, we did puppy push ups. It was a combination of sit and down using hand signals and a treat after so many successful completions at a very fast pace. We eventually worked in stand as well. This reinforced the commands for him, but also made him keep his attention on us and to concentrate on what we were doing.

You just have a normal, crazy puppy and YOU have to learn how to communicate with him so that he can learn and do what you want when you want. Training classes will help, but you can't assume that a 4 week course will do the trick. We have done a year of classes and learned sit, down, stand, give, leave it, mine, take it, wait, stay, off, come, shake, hi 5, wave, bow, belly up, wag your tail, up, touch.....it all builds up together. Once you figure out how your dog learns the sky's the limit

[PinkDragon14]

Be very careful with the treadmill. Have you heard the rule of thumb for exercise? 5 minutes of forced exercise per month of age allowed twice a day is the one I went by. Forced being anything on leash, straight line, constant pace, hard surface. You can see the treadmill fits right in there on two counts at least. Straight line and constant pace, bad for growing puppy joints. I'd also be very cautious of letting puppy decide when it's enough. They will go and go and go till it's too late. An older dog will too, and will hurt tomorrow. The puppy will hurt in a couple of years when damage starts to show up.

I kept the speed around .8-1.0 just to make sure he wasn't having damage. I set the timer as well so we wouldn't keep going for longer than we should. I took him downstairs this morning when he was starting to get his burst of energy (before I logged on here) and we walked gently (again the .8-1.0) for about 5mins. That wore him out enough to fall asleep for another hour. I'm going to try playing with him when he goes outside next time and see if one of his new toys can hold an interest for longer than 30 seconds. He got one of those kong sticks (the rubber ones that look a bit crude. they sent a pink one too to make matters worse ) and hasn't stopped chewing it since I opened the package. But of course when he bites, I give him that and he doesn't care. Gotta love Murphy!

I didn't have time to read this whole thread but I thought I'd tell you that my puppy is also a bit like this. He sees me as a play toy sometimes. It gets better. He's now 18 weeks and it's starting to subside. If you got him as a young puppy, younger than 8 weeks then he may not have learned bite inhibition from his littermates. I mistakenly got Bones at 7 weeks and will never do that again. I will wait until they are at least 8 weeks old. I also found mine was bored and needed more exercise. I went outside of Petsmart and found training classes for him but the most important thing that helped was letting him play with other dogs. We have a fantastic doggie day care that I started taking him to this week and that seems to be a godsend. He was allowed to play with dogs where he learns socialization skills. He's been much calmer this week also. The vet told me they were safely protected after their 16 week shots so you should be good to let him interact soon. Hang in there! There is hope.

We got him when he was 7 weeks (our fault). My next puppy will be waiting 8+ weeks until we pick it up (though at this point, we're pretty good for a while LOL). We have a great one here as well - the news has gone there multiple times to do segments with the owners and give them viewer's choice type of awards. I may start doing that towards the winter months so he has some activity and he'll be a bit bigger in size.

[Tanya]

just wanted to add - not JUST a question of age you got the dog at but the breeder and the dogs as well. not saying the breeder you picked was bad by any means but possibly they didn't pick the right puppy for yoru family (or sounds like you picked the dog at the visit). a good breeder knows their lines and knows the puppies after 8 weeks and after a good conversation with buyers, pick the right puppy to fit the buyer. Quality/knowledge of the breeder goes a very very very long way.

I think an issue is holding off on going anywehre this long is making your life more difficult. while I totally agree with being cautious, things are really being dragged out in you case. I wouldnt' bother with a treadmill for a puppy, but go for a walk in a safe-ish place. the sights and sounds and smells stimulate the mind as well as the body. Play dates with safe dogs are very important. Mental stimulation (new places, sights, sounds, people) goes a logn way in tire-ing out a dog and are key at that age.

Regarding the "if he doesn't listen what do I do". it really depends. If you are saying sit then maybe he doesn't know it well enough yet and you are askign too much (meaning, they learn when they are calm and focussed adn can give youa sit, but if a big distraction is there they are not ready for that, so you asked "too much" - your goal is to avoid asking for things he can't give you). For the no bite you need to just pick one method and do it. each time. At this point I would say he really probably hasn't mastered any commands so it's crucial you don't ask for things he can't give.

My friend fostered a mix puppy (he was 9-10 weeks, stray). She had him meeting a few new people each day. some people came to her house, sometimes she drove out to their place so he got a new place as well as a new person/dog. ti was a lot of work obviously (and not saying to do this daily) but she balanced keeping him safe (at this point he had one known vaccination after being found) and doing what she could to socialise him as the socialisation window was closing. She would crate him often for breaks, then let him out to play, train, interact, cuddle.

[xracer4844]

If he doesn't listen the first time (with any command), what should I do? Should I walk away and try again later? I don't want him to get the idea that it's on his time (I never thought of it that way until your post - thank you!)

It truly depends. I mean, it only depends on what your expectations are. My dog is certified search and rescue, we also perform shows and compete on a team demonstrating obedience, rally, nosework, etc. SO for us, obedience was really important when teaching signals and commands. I also can't comment on how much your dog knows, or how much they don't know. Once I reach a certain point of training with the pup, I introduce corrections in order to "proof". The proofing process in my opinion is the most important part of training.

I really can't comment on exactly what to do and how to do it unless I am there to watch your dogs body language and behavior. With that being said, formal classes, in something like obedience, would teach you wonders. I say it would teach you because you would probably learn more than the dog with the right trainer.

[xracer4844]

When you are telling him what kind of voice are you using? Is it a screeching high pitched voice or a no-nonsense, deeper, and more gruff voice? It may be the inflection in your voice that he does not respond to and also why he responds to your father.

When Maverick does something he shouldn't (his current fixation is stealing pillows and running around with them) I take a wider stance I.e. Hands on hips and leg spread a little and give him "the look"and tell him to give. He knows the difference between that and when I'm exasperated or don't really mean the command.

As as far as repeating commands goes, we did hand signals for everything before the voice command. The concept with the hand signals is that puppy doesn't understand the word but he does understand your hand going up or down and will want to follow it. Once the hand signals are learned you can correlate the word with the hand signal so that he makes that connection. When just learning the word puppy might not understand so the hand signal is backup. Once the word is learned if the verbal command is not followed immediately you can 1) wait it out for a few seconds (like 3 so that he doesn't forget what you're doing 2) bribe....but be careful with that so he doesn't always expect a treat if he waits a little bit to do what you want or 3) back it up with his "down pat" hand signal. You can wean him away from treats by only treating immediate behaviors. Eventually there will be no delay and no double commands. He'll just do it.

As as far as redirecting crazy behavior, we did puppy push ups. It was a combination of sit and down using hand signals and a treat after so many successful completions at a very fast pace. We eventually worked in stand as well. This reinforced the commands for him, but also made him keep his attention on us and to concentrate on what we were doing.

You just have a normal, crazy puppy and YOU have to learn how to communicate with him so that he can learn and do what you want when you want. Training classes will help, but you can't assume that a 4 week course will do the trick. We have done a year of classes and learned sit, down, stand, give, leave it, mine, take it, wait, stay, off, come, shake, hi 5, wave, bow, belly up, wag your tail, up, touch.....it all builds up together. Once you figure out how your dog learns the sky's the limit

Voice inflection is hugely important. I have a very deep raspy grunt in my voice that works to my advantage. I am very careful in how I deliver commands, paying close attention to the inflection I deliver.

[PinkDragon14]

When you are telling him what kind of voice are you using? Is it a screeching high pitched voice or a no-nonsense, deeper, and more gruff voice? It may be the inflection in your voice that he does not respond to and also why he responds to your father.

When Maverick does something he shouldn't (his current fixation is stealing pillows and running around with them) I take a wider stance I.e. Hands on hips and leg spread a little and give him "the look"and tell him to give. He knows the difference between that and when I'm exasperated or don't really mean the command.

As as far as repeating commands goes, we did hand signals for everything before the voice command. The concept with the hand signals is that puppy doesn't understand the word but he does understand your hand going up or down and will want to follow it. Once the hand signals are learned you can correlate the word with the hand signal so that he makes that connection. When just learning the word puppy might not understand so the hand signal is backup. Once the word is learned if the verbal command is not followed immediately you can 1) wait it out for a few seconds (like 3 so that he doesn't forget what you're doing 2) bribe....but be careful with that so he doesn't always expect a treat if he waits a little bit to do what you want or 3) back it up with his "down pat" hand signal. You can wean him away from treats by only treating immediate behaviors. Eventually there will be no delay and no double commands. He'll just do it.

As as far as redirecting crazy behavior, we did puppy push ups. It was a combination of sit and down using hand signals and a treat after so many successful completions at a very fast pace. We eventually worked in stand as well. This reinforced the commands for him, but also made him keep his attention on us and to concentrate on what we were doing.

You just have a normal, crazy puppy and YOU have to learn how to communicate with him so that he can learn and do what you want when you want. Training classes will help, but you can't assume that a 4 week course will do the trick. We have done a year of classes and learned sit, down, stand, give, leave it, mine, take it, wait, stay, off, come, shake, hi 5, wave, bow, belly up, wag your tail, up, touch.....it all builds up together. Once you figure out how your dog learns the sky's the limit

This morning he was nipping at me while I was making breakfast. I tried doing the more stern voice, but he was kind of like "eh" and kept going. I'll try widening my legs a bit and giving him the stare.

He seems very food motivated (I guess as any dog is) and does anything and everything when we have food. After the classes at Petsmart, we're going to take some more, but we have to decide whether to take more there or to go to another location/trainer.

I'd like to take him to the Petco puppy playtime, but its just a matter of those shots (Ugh these shots!!!)

[PinkDragon14]

You guys are posting too fast for me to catch up LOL - thank you all for your comments/suggestions. I'm hoping that he'll start to understand eventually. For right now, I'm learning a lot that I didn't know!

just wanted to add - not JUST a question of age you got the dog at but the breeder and the dogs as well. not saying the breeder you picked was bad by any means but possibly they didn't pick the right puppy for yoru family (or sounds like you picked the dog at the visit). a good breeder knows their lines and knows the puppies after 8 weeks and after a good conversation with buyers, pick the right puppy to fit the buyer. Quality/knowledge of the breeder goes a very very very long way.

I think an issue is holding off on going anywehre this long is making your life more difficult. while I totally agree with being cautious, things are really being dragged out in you case. I wouldnt' bother with a treadmill for a puppy, but go for a walk in a safe-ish place. the sights and sounds and smells stimulate the mind as well as the body. Play dates with safe dogs are very important. Mental stimulation (new places, sights, sounds, people) goes a logn way in tire-ing out a dog and are key at that age.

My friend fostered a mix puppy (he was 9-10 weeks, stray). She had him meeting a few new people each day. some people came to her house, sometimes she drove out to their place so he got a new place as well as a new person/dog. ti was a lot of work obviously (and not saying to do this daily) but she balanced keeping him safe (at this point he had one known vaccination after being found) and doing what she could to socialise him as the socialisation window was closing. She would crate him often for breaks, then let him out to play, train, interact, cuddle.

The breeder we chose was...well, bad. It wasn't what a breeder's home/area should look like (dirty, multiple dogs running in and out of the puppies' space, etc). I really didn't even think about it deeper until he was sick when he came home. Then I started to think back to what conditions he was living in. Anyway, we ended up picking him because we wanted the calmest one. She also pointed us to him, but little did we know, he was calm because he was sick.

Around here, we really only have wooded areas/trails. Do you think that a walk on one of these trails would be ok? None of the streets around here have sidewalks either (think suburb about 20-25mi away from a major city, wooded, sort of secluded). Heck, we don't even have streetlights except for a few main roads! (Which is TERRIBLE at night)

It truly depends. I mean, it only depends on what your expectations are. My dog is certified search and rescue, we also perform shows and compete on a team demonstrating obedience, rally, nosework, etc. SO for us, obedience was really important when teaching signals and commands. I also can't comment on how much your dog knows, or how much they don't know. Once I reach a certain point of training with the pup, I introduce corrections in order to "proof". The proofing process in my opinion is the most important part of training.

I really can't comment on exactly what to do and how to do it unless I am there to watch your dogs body language and behavior. With that being said, formal classes, in something like obedience, would teach you wonders. I say it would teach you because you would probably learn more than the dog with the right trainer.

How often did you work with your pup a day (like around 15wks)? I know the situation varies, but I'd like to get him doing "intense" training to get his mind working.

I'm eager to learn hands on with a trainer. I appreciate your help and everyone else's help on the board, but I know that none of you can't help him directly unless you were here in person. I'm extremely grateful for the suggestions though!

[zd262]

Any puppy class is not shot dependent. Usually they just have to have one set of shots to attend puppy classes and puppy play dates. My vet recommended we wait until Bubba was 19 weeks to take him outside...believe me he was out by the time he was 12 weeks. I agree that you are making your life harder by not letting him out.