Biting taken to a whole new level

[xracer4844]

How often did you work with your pup a day (like around 15wks)? I know the situation varies, but I'd like to get him doing "intense" training to get his mind working.

I'm eager to learn hands on with a trainer. I appreciate your help and everyone else's help on the board, but I know that none of you can't help him directly unless you were here in person. I'm extremely grateful for the suggestions though!

Personally at 15 weeks, I enjoy clicker training. For the first couple months, I find clicker training works well because it's positive and it works well with pups that are food motivated. With my current black lab, I trained each meal with the clicker. 3 Meals a day. Each Kibble I used as 1 command until the whole meal was gone.

For example: SIT - CLICK - 1 KIBBLE. DOWN - CLICK - 1 KIBBLE. ETC. I train basic commands, like sit, down, stay etc.

Now, that's not to say those were the only times I worked him throughout the day. Training happens all day long. I constantly reward good behaviors, and discipline the bad behaviors. The first few months in my opinion are crucial for setting the "ground rules".

[zd262]

I also feed by hand train, so a good amount throughout the day. Outside in the yard or at a nearby park. 1 cup at a time with some fetch and play built in. He was usually pretty tired afterwards.

[Annette47]

My friend fostered a mix puppy (he was 9-10 weeks, stray). She had him meeting a few new people each day. some people came to her house, sometimes she drove out to their place so he got a new place as well as a new person/dog. ti was a lot of work obviously (and not saying to do this daily) but she balanced keeping him safe (at this point he had one known vaccination after being found) and doing what she could to socialise him as the socialisation window was closing. She would crate him often for breaks, then let him out to play, train, interact, cuddle.

I agree with this, and wanted to share that I do understand your concern with the issue of the delayed shots. Sassy is also (as with your pup) delayed on her shots due to an illness (mild case of puppy strangles), and I am concerned about socializing her enough. We’ve made an effort to have plenty of people come to the house, I do take her on walks in my neighborhood (my vet lives in the same neighborhood and practices nearby and pronounced it “very low risk”). She’s met the dogs in the houses surrounding us, and fortunately has her sister and mother around as well. Biting is not an issue with her (she bites her sister when the urge hits, LOL). Even so, she is not as confident when out and about as I would like, so the other day we brought her on a long ride with us - to drop off one of my kids at a friend’s house 20 minutes away, and then to pick up my husband at the train station another 10 minutes in the opposite direction. My dogs usually ride in crates, but this time I had my eldest daughter hold Sassy on her lap with the window down so she could hear, see, and smell all sorts of new things and people without actually being exposed to anything - it helped. As soon as she has her next set of shots, she will be going more places with us - I can’t wait!

It’s a delicate balance of risk of illness vs. need for socialization and it’s difficult to manage, but I think part of it involves looking at your dog’s needs - yours seems to need more interactions with other dogs to work on bite inhibition. Mine needs more people and places. Sometimes you have to take a (small) risk to get a big benefit.

[Annette47]

Now, that's not to say those were the only times I worked him throughout the day. Training happens all day long. I constantly reward good behaviors, and discipline the bad behaviors. The first few months in my opinion are crucial for setting the "ground rules".

I agree .... whatever you decide to teach in the first few months (mine have learned “sit”, “down”, “stand”, “come”, “spin”, and “touch” - “stay” is next), the most important thing you can teach them is how to listen to you and that working with you is fun. Everything else can come later.

[windycanyon]

Lots of good info here. I just want to add that as for the biting, if one watches the mothers w/ their litters, one of the things she will do is take the obnoxious pup down to the ground at the neck or even the head w/ her muzzle (or will lay their paw or head over the top of puppy), gently of course, when they are very young. So anyone against the concept of corrections have not watched what moms (and grandmas, etc as I have here) have done forever to "correct" the rude puppy. It doesn't have to hurt but it does need to be an *effective* correction and believe me, my girls who have raised litters are VERY good at curbing the biting. Great Grandma Fuji (aka Grandma Grump) loves all the puppies here until they hit the magical obnoxious age of ~5 wks. Then suddenly there is a period where it seems all she does is correct them for being rude (she kind of has a gruffy growly bark and wags her tail rather stiffly at them to tell them "Enough of that!"). Then they hit 4 mos old, and finally have some semblance of respect (due to the consistent corrections imo), and they all live happily ever after.

My youngest (7mo) was so lucky to have generations of "experienced grandmas" here. I lost their mom to a probable black widow when they were only 7 days old. The grandmas, aunties and cousins (eventually) raised and socialized the litter. It is so neat to see the young cousins, etc, "learn" how to deal w/ the obnoxious behavior. Actually it's kind of like new puppy owners-- they are at first SO CAREFUL in their responses that they are ineffective in stopping the behavior. Eventually they watch the older ones and realize what it takes to stop the behavior... and so by the time they are of breeding age, mine are pros at this! So think about it... if the response you are giving is not working, you need to try something else, oftentimes a little stronger! No one is suggesting you hurt the puppy, but you do have to get his attention and be fast and firm w/ that "correction" so he understands clearly what it is he is doing wrong.

I also tend to have my pups out and about by 12 wks to safe places. Basically farm type stores, the car dealership (say you need your oil changed...), the hardware store etc. My 7 mo old went to hunt tests, fun obed matches, etc starting at ~11 wks, but has yet to be in a Petco/ Petsmart type place by my choice.... I don't trust most of the people who take their dogs there plus most do rescue adoptions and so your risks are higher. We started a Rally obedience class at 4 mo (yes, she was by far the youngest there, but it was a good, safe learning environment away from the comfort of home) and she started competing at 6mos. The sky is the limit if you are willing to invest the time and effort.

[PinkDragon14]

I agree with this, and wanted to share that I do understand your concern with the issue of the delayed shots. Sassy is also (as with your pup) delayed on her shots due to an illness (mild case of puppy strangles), and I am concerned about socializing her enough. We’ve made an effort to have plenty of people come to the house, I do take her on walks in my neighborhood (my vet lives in the same neighborhood and practices nearby and pronounced it “very low risk”). She’s met the dogs in the houses surrounding us, and fortunately has her sister and mother around as well. Biting is not an issue with her (she bites her sister when the urge hits, LOL). Even so, she is not as confident when out and about as I would like, so the other day we brought her on a long ride with us - to drop off one of my kids at a friend’s house 20 minutes away, and then to pick up my husband at the train station another 10 minutes in the opposite direction. My dogs usually ride in crates, but this time I had my eldest daughter hold Sassy on her lap with the window down so she could hear, see, and smell all sorts of new things and people without actually being exposed to anything - it helped. As soon as she has her next set of shots, she will be going more places with us - I can’t wait!

It’s a delicate balance of risk of illness vs. need for socialization and it’s difficult to manage, but I think part of it involves looking at your dog’s needs - yours seems to need more interactions with other dogs to work on bite inhibition. Mine needs more people and places. Sometimes you have to take a (small) risk to get a big benefit.

I just checked the Petsmart classes calendar and classes start on Sunday, so I'm hoping he makes a few friends that are around his age that he can play with on a regular basis. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow (tried today and they were closed) and see if we can move his appointment to this Saturday. We need to get a proof of vaccines anyway, so hopefully they may be able to squeeze him in quickly. He needs the socialization. Even in the vet's office a few weeks ago, he was trying to play with an older black lab (she was beautiful) that wanted nothing to do with him. It assured me he isn't scared of dogs or people, he just isn't used to them on a daily basis (trust me, I've tried time and time again to bring a second lab home but my father says one is enough for now LOL)

The only dogs around us are the neighbor's labs, but there again, I'm just worried that they'll tower over him since he's still on the tiny side. I'm sure they're nice dogs - it's just my over-worrying as usual :P

Lots of good info here. I just want to add that as for the biting, if one watches the mothers w/ their litters, one of the things she will do is take the obnoxious pup down to the ground at the neck or even the head w/ her muzzle (or will lay their paw or head over the top of puppy), gently of course, when they are very young. So anyone against the concept of corrections have not watched what moms (and grandmas, etc as I have here) have done forever to "correct" the rude puppy. It doesn't have to hurt but it does need to be an *effective* correction and believe me, my girls who have raised litters are VERY good at curbing the biting. Great Grandma Fuji (aka Grandma Grump) loves all the puppies here until they hit the magical obnoxious age of ~5 wks. Then suddenly there is a period where it seems all she does is correct them for being rude (she kind of has a gruffy growly bark and wags her tail rather stiffly at them to tell them "Enough of that!"). Then they hit 4 mos old, and finally have some semblance of respect (due to the consistent corrections imo), and they all live happily ever after.

My youngest (7mo) was so lucky to have generations of "experienced grandmas" here. I lost their mom to a probable black widow when they were only 7 days old. The grandmas, aunties and cousins (eventually) raised and socialized the litter. It is so neat to see the young cousins, etc, "learn" how to deal w/ the obnoxious behavior. Actually it's kind of like new puppy owners-- they are at first SO CAREFUL in their responses that they are ineffective in stopping the behavior. Eventually they watch the older ones and realize what it takes to stop the behavior... and so by the time they are of breeding age, mine are pros at this! So think about it... if the response you are giving is not working, you need to try something else, oftentimes a little stronger! No one is suggesting you hurt the puppy, but you do have to get his attention and be fast and firm w/ that "correction" so he understands clearly what it is he is doing wrong.

I also tend to have my pups out and about by 12 wks to safe places. Basically farm type stores, the car dealership (say you need your oil changed...), the hardware store etc. My 7 mo old went to hunt tests, fun obed matches, etc starting at ~11 wks, but has yet to be in a Petco/ Petsmart type place by my choice.... I don't trust most of the people who take their dogs there plus most do rescue adoptions and so your risks are higher. We started a Rally obedience class at 4 mo (yes, she was by far the youngest there, but it was a good, safe learning environment away from the comfort of home) and she started competing at 6mos. The sky is the limit if you are willing to invest the time and effort.

We've tried to mimic the mother "pinning" the pup down, but he comes back up and thinks you're playing. Now when my father does it, it seems to work a bit better.

I'm looking into seeing if the Home Depot up here allows dogs. I'd love to take him in there, but he's just a small brown Hoover! That's one of our concerns when walking him - he could (and will) eat anything. I know that'll be a problem his entire life, but it's the puppy stage where they eat everything (side story - he ate part of his bed last night when we were sleeping. I found stuffing all over the floor this morning. Luckily the part he ate came out this afternoon. Yes, he shouldn't have a nice bed until he's a bit older, but he's been fine with it for the past 3 weeks. Ugh puppyhood!).

I'm planning on doing dock jumping with him when he's bigger. It always has interested me whenever I saw it on tv and I wanted to try it with our next dog. I'm trying to train him just a little bit when we're out playing fetch (such as waiting for the toy to be thrown, etc.)

I also need to work on getting him used to the car. He squirms around the backseat, barks, whines, you name it. I don't want to crate him when traveling unless absolutely necessary.

[Labradorks]

You're getting a lot of good information here, but a lot of different information. If I were you, I'd be thoroughly confused.

One thing I will say, however (and hopefully I don't add to the confusion), is that there is no reason not to continue rewarding your puppy for obeying your commands. He is a baby with the mentality of a two year old child. He needs reinforcement -- cookies, praise, games, a toy, opening a door, snapping his leash on for a walk, whatever. Eventually, trained right, he will want to please you and will do known exercises because he wants to work with you. Right now, he is learning and you should be consistent, generous and fair. Eventually your reward schedule will change and some things will become the norm or automatic and not require rewards other than a "good dog". But that time is not one month after learning a new behavior as a little puppy. Your dog sounds like he is from lines that can be difficult for someone new to Lab puppies to work with, so I'd figure out what works for the little guy and what works for you, and keep it in your toolbox for a long time to come! And if that is bologna, then so be it! If it works, he's happy and you're happy...then why not?

Also, crate the puppy. It's dangerous for them, not to mention the driver, to be in the back seat loose like that. And treadmills can be dangerous and at his age especially, there is no need for it.

[Maxx&Emma]

If he likes bologna try some cut up hot dogs! They pretty much taste the same, at least to me, and they are easier to cut up and dole out.

What Labradorks said above, I couldn't agree with more. He is a baby and if he is food motivated please don't hesitate to use it to make training more fun for him. The more fun training is, the more fun the dog has learning. It is a win - win situation for both of you.

[PinkDragon14]

You're getting a lot of good information here, but a lot of different information. If I were you, I'd be thoroughly confused.

One thing I will say, however (and hopefully I don't add to the confusion), is that there is no reason not to continue rewarding your puppy for obeying your commands. He is a baby with the mentality of a two year old child. He needs reinforcement -- cookies, praise, games, a toy, opening a door, snapping his leash on for a walk, whatever. Eventually, trained right, he will want to please you and will do known exercises because he wants to work with you. Right now, he is learning and you should be consistent, generous and fair. Eventually your reward schedule will change and some things will become the norm or automatic and not require rewards other than a "good dog". But that time is not one month after learning a new behavior as a little puppy. Your dog sounds like he is from lines that can be difficult for someone new to Lab puppies to work with, so I'd figure out what works for the little guy and what works for you, and keep it in your toolbox for a long time to come! And if that is bologna, then so be it! If it works, he's happy and you're happy...then why not?

Also, crate the puppy. It's dangerous for them, not to mention the driver, to be in the back seat loose like that. And treadmills can be dangerous and at his age especially, there is no need for it.

I actually have a notepad next to the computer with notes LOL (No lie!)

I'm to the point where I can tell him to sit and he'll do it even without a treat. Today, I used someone's tip (I forgot who - credit to whoever you are!) and made it more "challenging". At his 1p meal, I held his dish normally and didn't tell him to do anything. He jumped a few times and then it occurred to him to sit down. I gave him a Kong when I got home from my afternoon class and did the same thing. He sat right down and was awarded with a nice peanut butter treat. I also promised him bologna after he was behaved outside. He jumped for this (of course) and then sat. I'm trying to get him to learn to sit for his food and treats. So far so good!

We scarred him with the hot dogs and haven't tried since. When he was on his pills after he came home, we stuffed pills in the hot dog pieces. After that, he's snubbed them. I may try them again in the future though.

[Maxx&Emma]

Maybe try the chicken or turkey kind. I don't normally use hot dogs for training but had run out of my "go to" high value reward, I used cheese hot dogs and Maxx thought they were absolutely awesome, lol! He is very food motivated as it is but he went crazy over those. String cheese has been his go to favorite pretty much from day one.

I love that he sat for you with out being asked, he is one smart little boy that enjoys challenging his mama!