Help, I am at the end of my rope

[mjaynes288]

Perhaps it would help to clarify things for you and for us, if you could close your eyes... not see Fenway... but just visualize the hypothetical dog that would perfectly meet your needs. Because sometimes you need to be clear about the finished product, before you can assess the materials you need to create it.

I am looking for a dog eager to retrieve things I drop who enjoys working in public being the center of attention but is also able to enjoy a snooze on the couch. My last service dog was temperament tested while sick and when healthy turned into the energizer bunny. I coped with his energy because I lived in a house with a backyard pool and he took great care to avoid hurting me even as an unruly adolescent. I now live in a tiny apartment.

Secondly, after you can identify what you want in your ideal working dog, let me ask you if your breeder has ever produced dogs that can do these things, and if the trainer with whom you're working has ever been successful in training one. I don't mean one that's close. I mean one that genuinely fits the bill. Preferably, your trainer and breeder will have been able to produce more than one... many, in fact.

I do not know much about the breeder as the trainer picked my breeder and puppy but I know some of her dogs have become service dogs but not with my trainer so who knows the quality. My trainer has produced service dogs like the one I want.

Thirdly, I'm wondering what is your time frame. Hey, we all want the perfect dog NOW. I'm sure you are reasonable and understand that Rome wasn't built in a day. But, is your disability one that is stable? Or are you anticipating that you are going to need more dog, a more capable dog as time goes by? Because that could influence how you proceed from here.

My disability is stable. What I need NOW is a dog that immediately knows and cares when he hurts me around common place distractions like wet grass. If it starts raining food I would be able to accept this reaction. I want a dog that hits the end of the leash and comes to make sure I am alright. I cannot keep a dog the knocks me over, totally ignores me curled up crying while bouncing around, and when he is finished trots up to me to express how fun that was. I wear an over the shoulder leash just long enough for my dog to lay down. If I used a regular leash I would have many more injuries. My last dog who stopped after hitting the end of the leash dislocated 3 fingers, my thumb twice, subluxed my shoulder, and hyperextended my elbow before I put him on a prong. He only needed 2 corrections a month apart to never hit the end of the leash at speed again. At present I cannot ever see myself trusting Fenway not to hurt me because he is oblivious to my pain. If I fix the zooming what new way is he going to find to hurt me?

[smartrock]

To me, it sounds unlikely that you and Fenway will develop a bond. You've had him for a while, it hasn't happened, and to me it doesn't sound like you wish to try any longer with Fenway. I know I don't know you personally and this is only based on what you've written so far. I'm sorry you find yourself in this predicament. Maybe Fenway wasn't the best choice for you from the start. Is there any way the breeder and trainer can find a dog better suited to your situation and let Fenway go back to the breeder?

I'm sorry this would mean starting over with another dog, perhaps one past the adolescent stage. As others have suggested, that sounds like the best choice at this point.

[Tanya]

My disability is stable. What I need NOW is a dog that immediately knows and cares when he hurts me around common place distractions like wet grass. If it starts raining food I would be able to accept this reaction. I want a dog that hits the end of the leash and comes to make sure I am alright. I cannot keep a dog the knocks me over, totally ignores me curled up crying while bouncing around, and when he is finished trots up to me to express how fun that was. I wear an over the shoulder leash just long enough for my dog to lay down. If I used a regular leash I would have many more injuries. My last dog who stopped after hitting the end of the leash dislocated 3 fingers, my thumb twice, subluxed my shoulder, and hyperextended my elbow before I put him on a prong. He only needed 2 corrections a month apart to never hit the end of the leash at speed again. At present I cannot ever see myself trusting Fenway not to hurt me because he is oblivious to my pain. If I fix the zooming what new way is he going to find to hurt me?

Sounds like you need a mostly trained mature dog - not a teenage labrador unfortunately. If you don't trust the dog then it's best to contact the breeder ASAP so he can go to a more suitable home sooner rather than later. Then look for a dog that is 18 months or older that is either trained or of suitable temperament to work for you. Even a rescue that is solidly temperment tested could be a better fit. or a breeder that has a slightly older (over 15 months) dog that is a better fit.

This does not at all sound like the right dog for your needs. For whatever reason, maybe he wasn't from lines that generate working dogs or maybe jut not the right puppy in the litter. Or maybe just not a good match for you and your trainer.

I would note that I would go back to the breeder only ASSUMING this breeder is reputable and will properly care for him and find the right home. I'd personally want to find that out before sending him back. If they were fishy i'd just contact a reputable rescue that can properly care for him and screen to find the right home for him.

[Doreen Davis]

It doesn't sound like this is the right fit and the move to the smaller home is compounding it. I would talk with Labradorks if you're interested in her offer to help and give serious thought to returning the pup assuming you have the type of breeder who has that in the contract and will work to rehome the dog in a responsible fashion etc. If that is not the case then local reputable rescue is the next step. A mature trained service dog sounds like the right approach if possible.

[TuMicks]

I feel pretty sure that Fenway could learn the things you want him to learn.

* LLW with a SIT (either automatic or on command.)
* COME (or HERE)
* FETCH and HOLD
* "NO" (IOW... No, I don't want you to do that... I do want you to do this other thing.)

My disability is stable. What I need NOW is a dog that immediately knows and cares when he hurts me around common place distractions like wet grass.

No, MJ. Your are simultaneously asking too little and too much. First... your dog must NOT injure you under any circumstances. (You're asking too little.) Second... a dog doesn't understand you're injured, unless he's been taught to respond to particular cues. (You're asking too much.)

I want a dog that hits the end of the leash and comes to make sure I am alright.

NO! He must never, ever pull you over. He must never, ever hit the end of the lead. He must walk quietly at heel. In the event that you do fall for any reason, Fenway needs a bullet proof COME (or HERE) and SIT (until I get help, or manage to get to my feet.) Don't ask a dog to understand a human condition or emotion... (my knee has subluxated. I'm in pain.) But do expect him to be attentive and responsible for doing the things he's been taught to do. COME and SIT by me.

At this point, MJ... it sounds to me like this trainer is not helping you or Fenway. If your trainer does not understand the gravity of these things, if he/she has sent you out to practice things Fenway hasn't learned, the trainer is setting you and the dog up for failure.

If this trainer cannot teach a dog to heel and sit and come, then he/she is probably clueless about fetch and hold. I don't think you have a dog problem, you have a trainer problem. If you rehome Fenway, and get another puppy and continue working with this trainer... I think you'll have the same outcome.

[mjaynes288]

I do not know how this communication is getting so messed up but lets try again.

I have a service dog candidate. He knows HEEL, SIDE, FRONT, BEHIND, HERE, SIT, DOWN, STAY, LEAVE IT, DROP IT, GIVE, PAWS UP, JUMP ON, TOUCH, PAW, etc. These are well generalized because I believe in the Green Eggs and Ham school "Sit means sit in the park, near dogs that bark, in a car, on tar, near a cat, wearing hat..." Once or twice a week he FRAPs on leash and is deaf to the world. If I could drop the leash he would run crazy circles around me never getting more than 20' away for a minute or two and then come back very happy with himself. I cannot drop the leash because he chooses to do this near traffic.

Fenway's hitting the end of the leash hurts me. I want to train him not to hit the end of the leash but that is only part of the problem. I want a dog that understands when I yelp it means he hurt me. I have a speech processing delay so saying a command takes time. An inarticulate yelp is not delayed. I have never had a problem teaching this at the same time as bite inhibition but Fenway doesn't seem to get it. He has good bite inhibition finally but it comes after months of bruises. He does not respond to humans yelping.

Since this is the fifth response I have written (the others weren't good enough) I am going to post it hopefully it is better understood than my last post.

[lovemylabby]

Wow! First of all, he is just a BABY.. you really need to give him more time. Perhaps, you are expecting too much of him too soon.

But..the worst part of all of this...is you don't feel anything toward this puppy.

You need to return him to the breeder so he or she can find a family that will love him.

[ZoeysMommy]

No one is misunderstanding you. You need a more mature trained service dog. 9 month old labs are not ready for what you expecting right at this moment. Its a long process even for a normal pet trained puppy to understand everything that is expected of them at that age. That puppy needs to run and play, thats why you are getting yanked on the leash. Labradors are notorious for what is called butt tucking or frapping as you called it. Regardless of what you expect or want from him, or how well you think he is trained, or how much advice is given here, he is 9 months old, nothing will change that

If physically you cant handle a young labrador then you shouldnt have been placed with one in the first place as a service dog. Labradors under the age of 2-3 can be difficult even for someone without a disability

And personally I think this is all irrelevant anyway, you dont have a bond with this dog and thats the biggest problem. The bond between a service dog and the owner should be one that is unbreakable.

[Meeps83]

Did your breeder know you were looking for a service dog when you got him? It does sound like he's a normal 9 month old lab puppy. I know this doesn't help your situation. Is there a boot camp or something you can send him to? Or were you looking do do the training with him? It sounds like you guys just aren't on the same page but he has a lot of the qualities that a service dog should. Is there maybe a seminar or facility that will help both Fenway and you learn how to live and relay what each of you wants and needs? I'd definitely take Labradorks up on her offer.

FWIW I don't think Fenway means to hurt you. I think he doesn't understand the consequences of his actions on you. I think you both need to find a way to communicate with each other. What you are doing right now doesn't have meaning for him.....he just learns differently than your last service dog....but it sounds like he could be great with that missing link. I hope you both can come to a resolution!

[dxboon]

I think your dog needs to be returned to his breeder. You clearly are not the right fit for each other based on your posts. It doesn't matter if he's learned some commands or not. Service dog teams are about trust on both sides. You clearly don't trust your dog, and it sounds like you haven't bonded with him emotionally. I think you need a fully trained adult or a different dog or breed. I would agree that your trainer may not be the right fit for you either.