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  1. #1
    House Broken
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    Play fighting and growling since puppy socials

    Stella is not quite 11wks. We start puppy kindergarten this week, but have now been to two moderated puppy socials at our local training location. At the first, she was fairly shy until the last few minutes. Lat week, according to DH who took her, she had pinned a 30lb mastiff puppy twice her size. Moderator trainers are moving her to the puppy social with the more confident dogs next week.

    I've noticed in the last day or two that sometimes her play at home is even rougher, now including occasionally some growling as she tries to grab and nip us. It concerned me when she tried it with my 5yr old this afternoon. I intervened before the nip but the growl concerned me.

    Thoughts on on how to help her distinguish between rough play with the other puppies while learning to socialize, and becoming aggressive with us?

  2. #2
    Senior Dog dxboon's Avatar
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    Try to remember that she is not becoming "aggressive." She's becoming more at ease and confident in her surroundings (your home), and engaging in typical Lab play. My adult Labs look and sound like they are killing each other sometimes during play sessions. First, hopefully your child is not laying on the floor with puppy. When they are at their level, they play with kids like they do with peers. You might try to have your kid incorporated into the training regime. Have kid help you teach sit and reward the puppy. Things like that. Keep a tether on puppy so quick corrections can be managed. That also helps. The children in my life were prone to squealing and running, which caused my dogs to chase them as puppies. I put the kybosh on that immediately.

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  4. #3
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, as the puppy gets bigger and matures, things are probably going to get worse between the puppy and the child. She is not aggressive. She is a Lab puppy. As Dxboon mentioned, Labs are physical and mouthy and their play style is rough. My boys look at act like those bear fights you see on the nature channel.
    Because this play style is genetically a part of her -- her default, if you will -- you have to train her to not play that way with humans. It takes time, typically several months if you are consistent in your training, a few years if you're not.

    There has to be rules for the kids, too. No sitting or laying on the ground when the puppy is out and about is number one. Same with adults, really. If you're on their level, they are more likely to play with you like a peer. Also, as a child's natural inclination is to scream, run, arms flail, try to teach the child to be still like a tree if the puppy gets rough. The more he screams, runs or flails, the more excited the puppy will get and excitement plus a lack of control (because it's a puppy) can result in some puppy/kid drama.

    It's fairly typical for a Lab puppy to get put in with the older/bolder pups at a young age. Talk to the moderators and find out if she is being too rough or too pushy. If the puppy is doing something you don't like, a simple short timeout won't hurt her. Not a "you're in trouble" timeout, but a few minutes to calm down. Also, when they get tired they can get cranky and overstimulated. If she is going pretty good and 45 minutes into it she gets to be a little much, it might just be time to go home -- keep an eye on the time during these things and I'll bet you see a pattern. I'm sure you've seen little boys play and it's all fun and games and then suddenly they are red-faced and crying and hitting each other, obviously over their limit? Puppies get that way, too.

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  6. #4
    Senior Dog arentspowell's Avatar
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    Lots of good info above. Some dogs are just vocal players. One if mine growls and snarls while playing, the other barely makes a peep. It's just different personalities.

  7. #5
    Senior Dog Tanya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dxboon View Post
    Try to remember that she is not becoming "aggressive." She's becoming more at ease and confident in her surroundings (your home), and engaging in typical Lab play. My adult Labs look and sound like they are killing each other sometimes during play sessions. First, hopefully your child is not laying on the floor with puppy. When they are at their level, they play with kids like they do with peers. You might try to have your kid incorporated into the training regime. Have kid help you teach sit and reward the puppy. Things like that. Keep a tether on puppy so quick corrections can be managed. That also helps. The children in my life were prone to squealing and running, which caused my dogs to chase them as puppies. I put the kybosh on that immediately.
    x100. lab puppies play ROUGH (some adults too) and growl are just vocalization. growls DO NO MEAN AGGRESSION. they are just a sound dogs make. what they mean depends on what's going on with their body posture/activity. Your description sounds completely like play.

    Sounds like your puppy is becoming confident - which is a good thing!

    For puppy-puppy play the trainers should help guide you. When I took a puppy class the trainers were terrific at walking me thru what was appropriate, what is ok but should be interrupted to give the pups a breather and when to step in immediately. But note dog play IS rough. I already had had many dogs and fosters by this point but still learned a great deal from those classes and watching puppy play.

    For Puppy-human interactions that you will keep showing them over the next months and years. the rules for playing with other dogs is clearly not the same as for playing with humans Don't let the growl or growing antics stress you too much. Just keep interrupting, redirecting. Make sure as much as possible to set up the dog for success as well by managing the environment as activities as much as you can.

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  9. #6
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    Although I only have one dog and she is only two and a half, I do feel I can contribute something to this thread because my youngest daughter was six when we got Piper and we lived in a neighborhood full of kids.

    Everyone just wants to smush and love on lab puppies, it's just the way it is, they are so dang cute people can't help it, especially children. We brought Jada with us to puppy class so she could learn how important it was for her to play "appropriately" with Piper. The only time we let the neighborhood kids hold Piper was after she had burned off some energy running and if they were calmly sitting on the couch. All the kids worked with her on leash training, calmly and quietly walking around the cul de sac.

    They all knew roughhousing on the floor was an absolute no-no and if I caught it happening they would be the ones in trouble, not Piper. They also knew what her feeding schedule was and while I usually let Jada be the one to feed her, a couple of times a week I would let the neighborhood kids feed her. It helped everyone feel like it was fun to have a puppy but in a way that was good for all of them, human and canine.

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  11. #7
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    I'm really not keen on puppy play sessions (w/ strangers' dogs) that get too rough.
    I'm not clear if your "5 yo" is a child or another dog... but you need to decide why you are paying money for classes at this point. Are you there for training or to play? I'd hope they are doing training first, and THEN after wearing puppy out mentally, allow a short nice / sociable play session.
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  12. #8
    Senior Dog Tanya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
    I'm really not keen on puppy play sessions (w/ strangers' dogs) that get too rough.
    I'm not clear if your "5 yo" is a child or another dog... but you need to decide why you are paying money for classes at this point. Are you there for training or to play? I'd hope they are doing training first, and THEN after wearing puppy out mentally, allow a short nice / sociable play session.
    while everyone looks for something differen in classes - and I TOTALLY understand why you wouldn't care for play sessions as you can cover that on your own and are savy at reading dog-dog behaviour and when/how to step in however...

    I took a great puppy classes that included play sessions. The play times were short, breaks between training/work. But they were NOT free for all playing. There were multiple trainers supervising and lots of "breaks' during the play, with reward being letting the dog play (so dog learns calling isn't the end of play time, and that rewards are not only treats). No dog was allowed to be bullied, that was part of what we learned, when and how to step in. What to look for. Learned about separating dogs and then seeing if they go back to each other (or if one runs away). I had been going to dog parks for awhile but still learning about dog play. There was one little dog that was an issue but they managed him/separated as required to ensure no dog was bullied needlessly.

    Obviously this was a particularly educational class and I understand some classes may actually allow too much free for all and play time is non-educational. But in a good class, short play can be very beneficial and educational as part of training.

  13. #9
    Senior Dog zd262's Avatar
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    All of the puppy classes I've ever attended or looked into have included some element of play. That aside, the post did say that these were specifically "puppy socials" which are all about supervised play as opposed to a standard class.
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  15. #10
    Senior Dog Tanya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zd262 View Post
    All of the puppy classes I've ever attended or looked into have included some element of play. That aside, the post did say that these were specifically "puppy socials" which are all about supervised play as opposed to a standard class.
    ahh! i missed that would really depend on how active/diligent trainers/owners are then

 



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