5mo old pees whenever she wants- often NOT outside! What age should she "get it"?

[Deacondog]

Thank you. I feel badly for her too! I don't want her to feel unwanted... I try not to let her feel that way but dogs are perceptive though i'm not sure she's crazy about me either in all fairness? This morning she peed on my bed! (i've allowed her up there for the past 3wks ONLY for a short time in the morning, she gets to have a milkbone while i have a cup of tea and then she can chew her bone and so far it's worked out OK after she realized she can't climb all over me) She does NOT sleep there and isn't allowed in the bedroom otherwise unless she busts in there. She also just pooped right after coming inside tonight?! It's like she is regressing (or this is what this breed does?) I am used to the lightbulb moment with previous dogs- they "get it" and that's pretty much it- maybe a mistake here and there but overall once they learn it's done. I will definitely have her checked for a uti but i'm skeptical she has one~ but worth ruling out. I am an educated person and don't want to do the wrong thing here. But it may just not be a good fit. I did "some" research prior to choosing a Lab but mostly spoke with owners and was told by many that the English Lab was the "calmer" of the two and after the Shep- this breed should be a "no brainer" re: temperament probs! (this was even backed by my Vet) The only way i could check the Breeder was to ask around the local Breeders- but they all know each other and apparently they maybe weren't truthful OR they are all of the same mind~ she is the one who believes in the pinning that i brought up before and don't do w/her. She is also very much of the school of "alpha" dog (as was my GSD trainer). I'm not sure that's bunk. And her Vet is Banana Joe's Vet from Westminster.
Someone had asked about the amount of exercise she gets and my work. I work from part time (3d/wk) from home. She is crated for 4-5hrs during that time but let out to pee usually once during that time. We play fetch for ~30" every morning even in the rain. I make her earn everything- meaning she has to sit to eat or before we go outside or come inside the door. (she's learning the door part- she's got the mealtime thing down pat) Then in the late evening we go for a 30" walk in the neighborhood. We also play fetch (different toys) and she does her zoomies in the house all evening- sometimes they are frenetic. Also, we practice her basic obedience throughout the day with her cookies. She is very food motivated. I can't control my external stressors...They can change on a dime and i was definitely on my last nerve when i wrote my post but the information is still all true.
Nobody ever really answered my question though about When i should expect her to be house trained or what i must be doing wrong? (and i do think i qualified my sentence about "projecting" so i'm hardly ascribing her special powers- but she does have an "attitude"- however you want to interpret that- maybe Stubborn & Sneaky is a better description. Perhaps expecting her to be affectionate is just not in her dna. Sometimes she'll flop on me- that's her way i think of showing affection and licking which then turns to biting unfortunately. I know she's teething and it hurts. Cuz of her new dietary restrictions- she's super limited now in giving her chew toys- so that really sucks for her- i discussed this w/the Vet. She isn't that fond of kongs or hard bones- but it's really all she can have now. Hope is with time her gut will allow for liberalization. But back to her "plan"- i know i need to decide if she is just too active for me- she deserves to be with a family who can meet her needs perhaps better than i can. But for now I am committed to caring for her and teaching her. It may mean getting a new trainer- i admit i don't know everything about dog training and all dogs are different. I think her Vet is fine & experienced. I want to Thank ALL of those who were Positive and Helpful with being practical in how to best deal with the problems i'm having versus just saying to Give her away or that I don't deserve to have a dog.

[Deacondog]

(i tried to indent this time for easier reading & make paragraphs but it didn't work...) sorry.

[silverfz]

Gigi just took first big blood and jumped on the 5 yr old is sleeping next my wife like an angel.puppies are tough, labs especially . My neighbor has a 6 month old bull dog. She is a sweety ,also due ri low activity all it takes is 15 minutes of dull work and she is done.
Now Gigi is a monster at 4 month. Takes alot to get her drained. She is lab and gsd mix. I hope the gsd even if 1/4 shows a bit in the training side.

Does she do puppy social try petco, at this point I will do day care once fixed
They establish a routine and dogs learn from other dogs just a day or 2 .

I am south of boston a bit more or could have had play dates .

[Tanya]

there is no answer to when she shoudl be house trained. it varies based on the puppy and how the humans do.

two thirty minute sessions is not a lot. I would personally recommend three exercise sessions (can be 20 mins), and a walk (can be shorter) and training (can be mixed in with the physical exercise). about an hour or an hour and a half.

Working to earn everything is great. she may still have too much freedom.

Hard to say from the description but I'd be tempted to modify the evening part where you describe her as frenetic. Get an actual play session in the evening, and a training session. Or make her ear her food (look at interactive games for feeding, kongs are one, there are others, some games you play with them, others they can do on their own). then maybe crate time or chill time with a toy.

Overall it sounds like she needs more structure and more exercise both physical and mental. not all at once. sometimes it's easier to do physical before mental.

Alpha rolling does nothing when it comes to training a dog.

[JenC]

The thing is that not all people are LAB People. Labs are freight trains with teeth when they are puppies. They chew, bite, challenge. They are the WORST puppies on the earth unless you are a LAB person. People see seeing eye Labs, the older comfy calm labs, and pick one up at the neighborhood breeder and wonder why they have a devil dog that is the worst animal on earth. If a human infant requires 100% of your time, a lab puppy requires 200% of your time. That's a Lab puppy for you. And that's what you need to be ready for.

A GOOD lab breeder (I am assuming you probably didn't get yours from one) will be more than happy to talk you out of their pups with all the horror stories of what raising a lab puppy is like. The flip side is that a GOOD lab breeder has spent so much time working on breeding the right temperament that all the issues you are having just simple DON'T EXIST. I've bred before AND I bought a pup last fall. She's a year now. Tickle is the most laid back angel puppy. I attribute it to her breeder. 1000%. And that's part of why you pick a good breeder.

All breeds and all puppies are not created equal. I brought him a Griff puppy a week before I brought my lab puppy home last summer. She's like a field lab on crack. She's trainable and she doesn't bite. But she's not house-broken. And not for a lack of trying. So I know the frustration, I have a year old pup with bad potty habits. Sure it sucks, but having the dog is more important to me. They are known to be harder to potty train though I think she takes the cake. I work full time, I have a husband, 6 dogs AND take care of my 88 year old mom who lives with us. And she is more difficult than all 6 dogs put together. I understand the frustration. But you need to sort out what you are willing to do and how much you are willing to put up with to possibly reap the rewards of having a lab.

I had a field lab for 11 years (she passed in 2014). That dog was too smart and an pain in the butt until she was trained and put on a schedule. I became involved with competitive obedience because she demanded to be worked. Now you don't have to go that route, but you may have to put aside 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes at night for ACTIVE play. You may need to continue classes for the life of the dog so that you can tame their active brain that's always searching for the next best thing. Sometimes the WORST pups/dogs are the SMART ones. If you were looking for a couch potato lab and ended up with a working lab, you may need to re-invent yourself and your lifestyle if the dog is that important to you.

And if those kinds of changes are too much for you, the brave thing to do is admit it's the wrong pup for your lifestyle and get it the right family before any behavior issues are in-grained.

[Deacondog]

Perhaps i was misinformed by the Breeder re: female Labs yet I also heard the same about Males- there did NOT seem to be any consensus about gender... I did a fair amount of homework but obviously not enough. I spoke to many breeders and Lab owners. The biggest message i heard was they become great dogs at about 2-3yrs old and they "can" be energetic in the beginning... I should've gone to chat rooms but i didn't think of it.
(and i don't have strange beliefs- i said i'm probably projecting- i think she's just stubborn & sneaky) But she does have Attitude. Very hard to believe NONE of you have ever Yelled at your dogs- Really??? Now who's not being honest here... It's not like i've never been to someone's house who has a dog and SEEN and HEARD people yell at their dogs to "leave the room" to "Stop it"- to "Get out of the Trash"- etc... Where do YOU live??? Camelot?

[Deacondog]

Good luck with the weiner dog situation and for the support about the amount of work involved- i certainly know puppies are a lot of care but she's like the energizer bunny and i can only provide "so much" entertainment for her as a human...

[JenC]

I am a crazy woman when I herd my 6 around. I yell at them, I swear loudly at them, and have been known to thump them in the heads when they outright disobey me. I have 3 males around the same age, they are hormonal meat heads. They are strong and will physically push me around. My 5 y/o actually had the nerve to poop on the Griff's potty pad after being outside for an HOUR. Yes, for those that love Grizz, that little $hit pooped in the house in front of me. THE NERVE. Girls/boys, it doesn't matter. My boys seem stupider than my girls.

One thing I have learned though, the second you don't act like you are in control (with a pup or an adult) they will try to move in. Dogs have a hierarchal mentality. If there is no alpha in the midst, even a puppy will test and try to move up at every given moment. They seek to fill that void, and if they can be the alpha, they will be.

[Deacondog]

Thank you- your post was probably one of the most helpful and understanding of all i read. I appreciate your time and information AND answering my housebreaking question- i felt 5mos was kind of pushing it. Yes, i do think my frustration level did have alot to do with the complaining but we definitely also DO have a few problems over here. I don't make any habit of hitting Sasha- it was twice and it was more of a reflex than anything else frankly. She struck like a cobra. I yelled No Bite and swatted at her nose- i did not Beat the dog or anything. Geesh. She's a very spirited & mouthy girl. I'm working on checking out the uti thing... AND we're going back to restricting her space but the whole house is so small she likes to be where i am- you know that's how they are! Even if she can just "see" me. But i guess she's still ready yet. I loved my Autistic GSD for who he was but talk about a lot of WORK- i'm not afraid of work- but that's why i was just HOPING for a little break with a Lab as all i've heard is how lovely they are and they make great companions and have such good temperaments! Not that I'd have a little demon here that's like patting a lawnmower 80% of the time. Well, actually it's time to take her out for a walk now- so I'm logging off. I"m sure i'll hear more judgments tomorrow! There's a Lab Breeder/Farm not too far that may have Trainers available specific to the breed. I will look into them this month. But she'll still need more socialization with other dogs- it was hard for a while there with her diarrhea as i didn't want others exposed before we figured out what was wrong with her. Fingers crossed- 2d now without symptoms off her antibiotics. But she pooped in the living room tonight again right after coming inside- so i just don't know why she seems to be going backwards? I'll just pretend it didn't happen and hope tomorrow's a better day. Night.

[Deacondog]

Thank you- YOU may not be trying to be mean- but can't say the same about some of the others on here... Yes, I'm doing all the housebreaking things one is supposed to do...
She doesn't respond much to the praise after but i do it anyways. And for the most part I THOUGHT she was doing pretty well but then noticed it's mostly ME who's housebroken, except when she uses the bells- and i can't understand the accidents AFTER we've only been inside 1hr and it's not after a lot of play necessarily? Possibly doesn't always empty her bladder? I'm open to the fact i may be being too hard on her but 5mos seems like she should have it down by now~ and tonight she pooped inside 2" after coming inside! (and peed on my bed this morning) it's really a problem now versus just "accidents". Gosh- I just honestly don't recall ANY of my other puppies being like her. It is not like i live in a huge house either!