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    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bernie View Post
      Exactly. Took them where? To your vet? That's the question I was asking, why or what is being done twice? I need a vet, don't need a breeder to play vet.
      I took them to my own vet within a few days once I got them. I don't view it as having anything done twice, I view it as making sure the pup is as healthy as the breeder said and an introduction of my new pup to this new vet. Both the lab breeders we used were reputable breeders and cared for the puppies carefully before I got them, including having them checked over for health issues and their first set of vaccines. They gave me the vaccine information and information on their own vets who my vets could contact if they had any questions. I took them to my own vet to again give them a once over to make sure they seemed healthy, to find out when the next set of shots or other health care things should be scheduled, and to ask any questions I might have of the vet. If they found a health problem, I could go back to the breeder to discuss the problem and decide what needed to be done. Some folks seem to think the vets know everything and breeders know little of use to the new owner. Depending upon the breeder, that could be accurate. I tried to pick my breeders carefully. I trust my vet but I also knew the puppies had been living with and being cared for by the breeder for the previous 2 months, so they would know more about my particular puppy than the vet could pick up in a 20 minute office visit. And yes, vets have extensive training, but the breeders I picked were very experienced as well.

      In my college class of 125 in my specialty, one was the valedictorian, most were reasonably smart and hard working, but then, there was also the bottom 10% of the class who graduated, maybe just barely, but they graduated and were sent out to practice what they supposedly learned. Likewise, in any class of veterinarians, there's the top 10% and the bottom 10% of the class. The bottom 10% still get to go out and practice veterinary medicine, don't they? Do I know who they are? No. I look for experienced and knowledgeable sources of information in caring for and raising my pups. It may be my vet, it may be my breeder, it may be another breeder. I don't automatically grant that any given vet is the final authority on all things animal, even if that means finding another vet for a second opinion or to switch to for primary care.

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    3. #22
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      Ditto here. Pretty much to the T. My ACVO gets a bit agitated when puppies come in for eye certs at 7-8 wks that aren't chipped because they want that research paper trail intact on every puppy that goes on to be rechecked annually.

      And further, I think some puppy owners start to get overwhelmed by all the vet expenses and may forget to chip altogether. So yes, Bernie, ~$250 of my expenses were microchips. It's just not something I'm willing to forego on my puppies at this point because they do allow a "finder" to track the pup back to me if the owner isn't reachable for some reason. I've done rescue for a goodly number of years and you'd be surprised at how many dogs (nice dogs) end up in the pound w/o permanent identification. All for something that may cost a breeder as little as $10 (considerably more if I have to pay the vet to inject it).



      Quote Originally Posted by Shelley View Post
      Microchips are necessary for permanent identification for doing breeding clearances for VPI (Verified Permanent Identification) Verified by the vet prior to the testing being performed (be it x-rays or echocardiogram etc...) they scan and record the microchip number. I microchip my puppies before 8 weeks, because that number goes onto their eye exam paperwork, and their health exams.

      I worm my own puppies starting at 2 weeks old, (There is no reason to take the whole litter to the vets office to be wormed every 2 weeks, so I do it myself), I microchip my puppies with chips I purchased and I am listed as the implanter, My Veterinary ACVO ophthalmologist scans each puppy before the eye exam, and marks their chip number on the form as VPI. I vaccinate my puppies a few days before going home. When I take my puppies for a well puppy health check before they go home, my vet verifies the microchips, checks stool samples, and examines them, she also supports me vaccinating my puppies at home.

      My vet supports me, we work together, it's not like either/or, or me playing vet. I am not sure what point you are trying to make Bernie?
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    4. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post

      Btw, I just placed an order for some very basic whelping supplies (incl dewormers, microchips etc-- no vaccines even!) and my total came to $980. Breeding is NOT cheap when done right.
      Now here it appeared you were being overwhelmed by the cost.

      Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
      Ditto here. Pretty much to the T.
      "I look for experienced and knowledgeable sources of information in caring for and raising my pups. It may be my vet, it may be my breeder, it may be another breeder."
      ? You have never agreed with that in the past.

      And further, I think some puppy owners start to get overwhelmed by all the vet expenses and may forget to chip altogether. So yes, Bernie, ~$250 of my expenses were microchips. .
      I would like to meet the folks that pay $1500+ for a pup and get overwhelmed by vet expenses, maybe $100. total for checkup, shots and heartworm meds..
      Some like myself see little use in a chip, we're not so dumb that we forget.

    5. #24
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      Bernie,

      No, I'm not overwhelmed by the cost. That is one small part of my breeding expenses this fall. You have no idea what you are even talking about and it's clear you just come on to needle everyone.

      Get a life........



      Quote Originally Posted by Bernie View Post
      Now here it appeared you were being overwhelmed by the cost.



      I would like to meet the folks that pay $1500+ for a pup and get overwhelmed by vet expenses, maybe $100. total for checkup, shots and heartworm meds..
      Some like myself see little use in a chip, we're not so dumb that we forget.

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    7. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by silverfz View Post
      Got to ask, i see AKC papered puppies for 250$ in OH . My friend got one, it was a working farm. the parents and puppies looked great as per him and his wife. The pup came with shots paper work , a refund policy of if any thing is wrong on the first vet visit and 60 day warranty . I cannot tell why it is so cheap other than backyard breeder but does AKC paper even worth a penny . just curious what people think.
      AKC papers are really nothing, only proof of parentage of the dogs. It's got nothing to do with quality and how the pups were raised. Those dog parents probably have no clearances, pups are probably raised in the barn....all depends on what you want. I can tell you this, my cheapest lab had the MOST problems, and cost me the most money in medical bills all after the first year of age.
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    8. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tanya View Post
      No a microchip won't help if the dog is STOLEN (unless you track them down and then you have a case against them if the dog is chipped to you). It DOES help if the dog escapes or gets lost. Shelters and pounds almost all have scanners and can call the owners right away. Finders of the dog can bring it to any vet to be scanned and you are contacted right away. VS without a chip the dog ends up at the pound or shelter or finder's house until you "track them down". I don't think that many dogs get stolen though. Many do get lost.
      Agreed. I live in a residential area and on nextdoor.com, I see anywhere between 2-4 posts a day for lost dogs and cats in my neighborhood. I live in an HOA and they even have a microchip scanner, so if the person that finds the lost pet calls the security company that patrols the area or they take the pet to the clubhouse, the pet can be scanned for a chip before the pet is taken to the shelter.

    9. #27
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      The chip is the Hail Mary when you turn around and see the door open, then do a head count and find one of your three guys is AWOL. I found a dog, a big, gorgeous chocolate lab who is now our "house lab". He did have a chip (that had been inserted at a Vet Clinic in another state about 400 miles away) but the chip was never registered.

      It is such a gut wrenching thought that your dog goes missing. It's the stuff of nightmares. I only have my dogs chipped so that I will have a little bit of hope in the event that were to happen.

      But oh, I almost have had to stop reading Facebook. I'm like... you left your dog loose in the backyard and came home hours later??? Your dog ran out the front door and wouldn't come back when you called? If I leave my dogs out when I'm gone, they're within a fence, within a fence. If my dog wouldn't come when called, he'd drag a leash around to at least give me a chance to catch him.

      It just breaks my heart. I will never say never. I might be a total bonehead some day and think I shut a door when I didn't. That's why my dogs are chipped.

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    11. #28
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      For Bernie: When I was a child, my father (also named Bernie, btw) planted a new apple orchard. One night right after the planting was done, some thieves came in and dug a dozen or 2 or 3 (???) trees up and stole them!!! Unbeknownst to the thugs, the trees had some unique "identities"... they were specially produced to be semi - dwarfing so had an "interstock" grafted in which was color coded etc. The State Police came in and were given a quick lesson on how to identify the special trees should they discover someone trying to sell them. As I recall, it only took a day or 2 and the thugs were caught and trees were recovered before they all died.

      This is basically why microchips come in handy for our pets too. It provides the owners w/ PERMANENT, POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION. So not only if someone steals or otherwise "claims possession" of your property as their own can you prove ownership, but also for the before mentioned positive identification for health clearances. Maybe that means nothing to you but for some of us, it's gold. Hope that helps.

    12. #29
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      Microchips are also required to show proof of rabies vaccination when traveling to certain places outside of the continental United States.
      Charlie and Burton


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    14. #30
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      The original poster hasn't made any more posts since the very first one last month. It's hard when people come, ask one question, and either don't check back or just disappear after getting an answer or two.

      Obviously the rest of us have no problem carrying on a prolonged conversation among ourselves anyway!

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