Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Puppy Trudy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Posts
    34
    Thanked: 4

    UTI/Recessed vulva/complicated!!!

    Hi Everybody

    First, the sticky on recessed vulvas has been tremendously helpful to us, but I've got a complication I'm wondering if people on the board can help with.
    Our 6-month-old Trudy has a recessed vulva. She developed a UTI one week ago. First round of antibiotics were working fine, but the vet called to say further analysis showed the bacteria is a drug-resistant variety, so they changed the antibiotic to a more potent one called Cefpodoxine. We ordered probiotics to add to her food in addition to this, plus two cran caps daily. Anyone had any experience with this drug? She seems fine on it so far.

    Here's the big dilemma. We need to let her complete a heat cycle in order to hopefully correct the recessed vulva. But we've got an intact male in the house. Sarge is 3 going on 4 and while we don't want to breed him, we feel strongly about keeping him un-neutered for a variety of health and personal reasons. Our plan was to spay Trudy at 10 months (I know this was not optimal even without the recessed vulva).
    Now we obviously can't spay her prior to a heat cycle.
    So, we are going to have to board Sarge somewhere while she is in heat. What I'm wondering is, how do we know when we would need to get Sarge boarded and out of the house? We are just beginning to plan for a place where Sarge can live happily for a few weeks but I'm just not sure when we'd need to do it and for how long. Does anyone here have experience with this?
    Also, after Trudy completes a heat cycle, will Sarge still try to mate with her? I know this is complicated but if anyone has any thoughts on it, I'd be grateful to hear them. Thanks!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -img_2403-jpg  

  2. #2
    Best Friend Retriever emma_Dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    543
    Thanked: 190
    When she's going into season, you'll notice that her mood changes most dogs become more clingly, start to lick themselves a lot, her vulva will swell and of course they are going to bleed. A way to check for blood would be light push with a white tissue against her vulva and see if any blood pops out. As soon as you start seeing that she's in heat I would board him because you don't know when she is going to fertile. I would keep them separated for a full 28 days.

    When she's not in heat, your boy will have no desire to mate with her since she not in season. so after she fixed they'll be fine.

  3. #3
    Senior Dog
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    baldwin, ny 11519
    Posts
    1,073
    Thanked: 928
    i cant help but i don't think that cran caps are to be combined with the antibiotics. check it out.
    Last edited by bett; 06-21-2014 at 04:54 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Dog smartrock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Carolina in my mind..
    Posts
    6,391
    Thanked: 4178
    It will be a full 28 days of separation, once her heat cycle has begun, when you first see blood. Until you see the blood, any "off" behavior is just guess work. My 18 month old little girl didn't have her first heat until she was 15 months old and I did not particularly notice any different behavior. I probably checked her periodically for a couple of months, just to make sure I wasn't missing anything. If she seemed more clingy, I checked, if I thought her vulva seemed swollen or she licked it, I checked, if she looked at me cross-eyed, I checked. She always hangs out by me and tends to be fairly vocal/whiny, so I got no clear behavioral clues. If you got Trudy from a good breeder who lives near you, another option might be to board Trudy, rather than Sarge.

    I know you said you don't want to have Sarge neutered, I know, I read your full post. I would just suggest you might want to re-consider this decision. You don't say why this is so important to you, although you do say you have no intention of breeding him. I have a male, now 7 years old, who was neutered when he was 3 years old so he'd have the benefits of hormones for skeletal development. We travel with him, we want him to be able to run off leash on the beach, for example, without worrying whether someone has brought their female in heat to play on the beach as well. He's well-trained, but he's a dog. Also, while you say it is important for Sarge to remain intact, it is inadvisable to spay Trudy before a heat cycle, so it seems Trudy's health issues might be just as important as Sarge's, maybe moreso. Again, I don't know what Sarge's issues are.

    We are just regular pet owners. We don't have kennel areas, our dogs hang out in the house with us and with each other. It would have been incredibly difficult to keep them separated for the time necessary had Chase been intact. They could not have been left unsupervised at all. I know there are breeders who have intact males and females together. I'm guessing they're much more skilled than I at predicting when their girls will come into heat and have the necessary accommodations to keep them apart in the time leading up to the beginning of the heat cycle. You could end up boarding Sarge for much longer than necessary, not knowing for certain when heat will start, or you might wait longer than you should and end up with Trudy getting pregnant unintentionally. It's just something to think about.

    Good luck, hopefully others who have more experience with heat cycles will give some info also.
    Sue

    Chase 9/29/2006- 6/30/2017 Always in our hearts
    Lark 12/25/2012- 2/2/22
    Henry 7/14/18
    Joey 5/14/2022

    “Because of the dog's joyfulness, our own is increased. It is no small gift. It is not the least reason why we should honor as well as love the dog of our own life, and the dog down the street, and all the dogs not yet born. What would the world be like without music or rivers or the green and tender grass? What would this world be like without dogs?”

    Mary Oliver, Hidden Content

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to smartrock For This Useful Post:

    arentspowell (06-21-2014)

  6. #5
    Puppy Trudy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Posts
    34
    Thanked: 4
    Thanks for the great advice, everyone. We'll definitely spay Trudy after the first heat, which is when the recessed vulva will likely resolve. Then Sarge's intact status won't be such a big deal anymore. We've got some good reasons not to neuter him, but indeed, it's become much more complicated than I realized it would be due to the recessed vulva issue.

  7. #6
    Best Friend Retriever Snowco Labradors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Franklin Lakes, NJ
    Posts
    575
    Thanked: 273
    While most RVs will correct on first heat some take a second to correct.

    You need to give the antibiotic in a meal to prevent stomach upset so you should not be giving the probiotic in the same meal. Prob. should be given 2-3 hours away from antibiotic.

    Once she is off the antibiotic wait at least 3 days to take a urine sample in to be sure the UTI is gone. Then start right away on the crancaps. I also highly recommend you get PH strips to monitor her urine PH at home so that if you see an elevation you can get her on a dbl dose of crancaps daily (one in am and pm meal). If her PH stays in normal range you should only need one crancap daily (provided you have a good product from fruit extraxt) to prevent UTIs until her RV corrects. Testing her PH weekly can help avoid over use of antibiotic.

    I too wonder at why you want to keep your male intact since he is fully mature at this point. Dogs that will not be used for breeding have a higher risk of testicular cancer. You may also have a hard time finding a boarding facility willing to take an intact male and can you really trust that an employee will not make a mistake and end up with an oops breeding from a female boarding there?

  8. #7
    Senior Dog doubledip1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    1,944
    Thanked: 1711
    Luna had 2 UTIs and a recessed vulva. She just had her first birthday and will be spayed between 18 months and 2 years. Her first heat cycle was in April, when she was 9-10 months old. You could definitely tell her vulva was swollen, and noticeable blood. We believer her RV corrected on the first heat but are allowing her to go through a second as we don't want to have such an invasive surgery before she's fully grown. She was allowed to play with her best friends, who was over a year and had been neutered for a full year so we weren't worried about semen reservoirs, etc. though we did not allow him to hump her at any time during her heat just in case his vet screwed up his procedure in some way. She was never accepting of any humping, just sat right down whenever she was humped. She was definitely more clingy, slept more, and was just generally mad at us because she was under house arrest and couldn't go to pet stores, the dog park, or for hikes with us.

    My vet told us to wipe her vulva every time she came inside with an unscented baby wipe, and to have her lose a few pounds so any bacteria in the folds of the vulva would have less of a chance to go up in her urinary tract. My vet told us we could give her cranberry caps. She told us checking with the pH was unnecessary, since pH naturally increases and decreases throughout the day depending on what's in her stomach, etc and wasn't a reliable method to detect a UTI. We gave her 1 antibiotic each time she had her UTI at each meal, and I usually gave her a little plain Greek yogurt for lunch.
    Hidden Content
    Sarah, human
    Luna, born 6/14/13, gotcha 8/18/13 and TDI certified 5/12/2015
    Comet, born 4/3/15, gotcha 6/9/15
    Double Dip, 25 y/o Draft/Welsh pony
    Gracie, 17 y/o DSH cat
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

  9. #8
    Senior Dog
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,502
    Thanked: 357
    Hi, Welcome to the Board. Looks like you got some good advice so far. Just a bit confused on why your decision to keep Sarge intact. Please don't think this is judgemental, because I respect your personal reasons for your plans for YOUR dogs. Just that now Sarge needs to be boarded, which takes him away from his family, not just protecting Trudy. And then after this is all over with and Trudy is safe, need to reintroduce Sarge to the family again?

    Hoping all goes well for Sarge and Trudy. Love the pic of them playing together.

    KAZ

  10. #9
    Chief Pooper Scooper JenC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,598
    Thanked: 2588
    I too am a bit confused, you are perfectly willing to spay your girl, but don't want to neuter your boy at all. It would be a no-brainer to me. Neuter your boy now, he's fully grown and developed. Then you don't have to worry about your girl. Boarding an intact boy is going to be hard, most places don't want them unless you know of a kennel that caters to show folks. Places like Camp Bow Wow or similar commercial day care/kennels will not want them. The expense of boarding for a month will probably be more than the price of the neuter.

    You can actually keep them both in the house though. If they are crate trained, you can keep one or the other crated at home during that month. I've done it when Grace was still intact. Once they start bleeding the males are interested but since the female isn't ready yet, she doesn't allow the humping. Week one will be the boy trying but not getting anywhere, typically they can still be out together but always supervised and both crated when you aren't home. I would start separate potty breaks too. Week 2, she's getting closer to ovulation, he'll get more interested, she may allow him to sniff and mount for longer periods of time. Someone should be crated at all times so they are apart, or kept in totally different parts of the house. Week 3 is the wind down of the cycle, but the boy will still be nuts and both should be separated by crates, potty separate still. Week 4 usually is safe, but you will have to judge based on their behavior together. To accomplish this, you have to have everyone in the house on board, one person in charge of the dogs, no kids letting both dogs in the yard to potty etc.

    But if it were me, I would do the boy now, let the girl have her season, wait two more months and then do her.

  11. #10
    Senior Dog Shelley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,226
    Thanked: 1739
    I agree that it would be much simpler and easier for everyone to neuter your boy soon. You would need to do so as as soon as possible so he is all healed up and unable to impregnate her before she comes into heat, you do not want any overlap at all, or he may still be able to get her pregnant. You would be surprised at how industrious dogs can be when Nature calls. They can absolutely breed through bars in a wire crate, holes in fences, and through chain link fences, and I have seen destroyed doors and walls, from both the bitch in season and the dogs trying their best to get to one another when the time is right. It is not easy to manage intact males and females in the same house without a lot of work to prevent an accidental pregnancy, and even seasoned experienced breeders have had accidental "oops" litters no matter how careful they are.

    I also agree that it may take more than one heat cycle to correct the inverted vulva, and you won't know until after the heat is over if it corrected.

    I wrote this on another thread about heat cycles recently, and I think it would be helpful here too, so I am reposting it. :-)

    My girls never go off their food when they come into season, but they do get clingy and super-even more affectionate than normal. Her vulva should show signs of swelling, and it will definitely get softer. When I check for a girl in season, I push the white tissue, just slightly inside, gently with my finger go check for blood. Sometimes the girls are really clean, and don't have a lot of bloody show, or what they call a silent heat. Hopefully she shows more outward signs that she is in soon, some girls have a kind of warning period about 4-6 weeks before they come in, and it seems like forever until they actually show blood. They hump and show other behaviors that you are seeing now. Blood spots can be nearly non existent, to large spots of blood way bigger than a pencil eraser.

    One cool tip I have learned is to use boys white underwear, "tighty-whiteys" and pull her tail through the fly part, and her legs through the legs of the undies. They are inexpensive, and you may have to try a few sizes to get a good fit, but they work well for one heat cycle. Once you can confirm she is "in", you will need to watch her very carefully for a full 28 days. The girls don't always read the textbook, and can be ready to breed while still bleeding, and no matter what color the discharge is, and any time during the 28 days. I have a girl that ovulated as early as day 8, and another that ovulated as late as 24 days into their heat cycle. I know this because I use progesterone testing for breeding purposes, not something you would need to do with your girl, but just giving an example of the wide variance in fertile times. :-)

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Shelley For This Useful Post:

    3ChocMom (06-22-2014)

 



Not a Member of the Labrador Retriever Chat Forums Yet?
Register for Free and Share Your Labrador Retriever Photos

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •