Need help breaking bad sleep habits in 8 month old puppy

[JennS]

We have done a terrible job creating good sleep habits in our puppy, and are looking for some ideas on how best to fix it at this point. We have done such a bad job, in fact, that I am somewhat embarassed to post this, but here goes ...

Lilly is 8 months old, and is not crate trained. Lilly is generally confined to the kitchen and den, although we are working on giving her more freedom in the house. She sleeps in the den. I am usually up fairly late in the evening, and am with her in the den, while my husband goes to bed earlier (around 9:00 pm). Lilly is pretty attached to my husband and, usually around 11:30 pm, she will start barking and banging on the baby gate until my husband wakes up and comes downstairs (she does this even if I am in the den with her, which I usually am, so it is not just being alone). He then sleeps in the den with her for the rest of the night. I realize this is a ridiculous situation, but it started when she was a baby and he has just kept doing it because it is easier than Lilly keeping the whole house up barking in the middle of the night. He is also a softie and just can't stand listening to her cry and bark. She is a pretty anxious dog (although is improving with this), and gets very worked up if he does not come downstairs when she starts barking for him.

Obviously we need to come up with some kind of solution that allows all of us to sleep through the night in our own beds, but I'm not sure how to best accomplish this at this point. Our 5 yr old lab, Reilly, is tolerant of Lilly for the most part, but reacts very negatively if Lilly tries to get on our bed, so having Lilly join us in the bed is probably not an option. Lilly gets really panicked if we shut her in a crate (she is a pretty anxious dog generally, although is getting better), and we are not inclined to crate train her unless that is the only option for working out this sleep issue. I suppose one option is to just leave her downstairs barking (i.e. let her "cry it out") and hope she doesn't get so upset that she goes into full out panic mode? Any thoughts and ideas are welcome, and laughing at us because we are silly enough to sleep with the dog in the den for months will be endured as well!

[ZoeysMommy]

Try a crate in the bedroom or work on teaching the other dog that your bed doesnt belong to him. Do not tolerate a dog claiming your sleeping space, personally id crate the other dog if it was me.

Most dogs just want to sleep in the same room with there people, thats all she wants. Mine would have mini heart attacks if i didnt bring them to bed with me

[JennS]

Thanks for the advice. I would not feel right about crating Reilly (the 5 yr old) at night. Reilly has slept with us since she was a baby, and I feel like her life has been upended in so many ways by Lilly's joining our family. Lilly is kind of a pain to her (always wanting to play rough when Reilly would just as well hang out quietly, taking over the kitchen and den which is our main family space, etc.), and making Reilly sleep in a crate so Lilly can have the bed just seems unfair to Reilly, who has generally been very sweet and tolerant towards Lilly. I agree that Lilly just wants to sleep with her people, but I guess I thought Reilly should have the right to keep her last bastion of peace from Lilly. It sounds like that is a mistake, though? Maybe our goal should be to get Reilly to accept Lilly in the bed? Lilly is so high energy - bedtime would definitely be a trip!

[Labradorks]

You are allowing your dogs to run your lives and your home. Your five your old dog is young -- it's not like you brought a puppy into a house with an arthritic 15 year old dog (which I did last year and it was fine). You don't need to make it up to her. She needs to deal with it and you and your husband need to reclaim your home and establish yourselves as the leaders. If you had a kid, then had a baby, would you allow the older kid to be nasty to the baby or cop an nasty attitude about having a sibling (for more than a day or two, anyway) and not let the baby into certain parts of the house? Of course not.

First of all, get the dog who is claiming your bed OFF of the bed. I don't personally have anything against dogs in the bed as far as behavior goes (the dirt and hair are a bigger issue for me) UNLESS they are nasty to humans or other animals and claiming it for their own. Get her a nice dog bed and put it on the floor next to the bed. Every time she gets on the bed you can lead her off with a treat and if she will tolerate it, you can tether her to the bed so she can't jump up. Just do not leave her unattended and I would not recommend this if you take a sleeping pill. Most likely she'd be fine, but you want to be aware. I'd also recommend just no longer allowing her on the furniture. She clearly cannot handle that responsibility. She also needs an attitude adjustment in the form of NILIF. Dogs need clear leadership, not humans who pander to them. She will be a happier dog and will probably start liking the puppy more. Dogs with issues like this are often insecure and need good, clear leadership.

The puppy should not be locked in another part of the house when you are sleeping. I would not let her on the bed either. Get her a nice dog bed and put it next to yours. Also, practice NILIF with the puppy. Every puppy should be doing this as it communicates clear leadership and teaches them manners. And, to be clear, when I say leadership I do not mean dominance. Google NILIF. It's easy. Takes some practice, but soon enough, it'll become habit. It sounds counter-intuitive but dogs with a job and a leader are happier, calmer, easier to deal with, and more focused on their people.

If your adult dog does not care for the puppy, it's your job to try to keep the puppy from annoying her too much, but it's also your job to ensure the puppy isn't being bullied and the adult dog isn't being mean to her for no reason. Let them both know you won't tolerate certain behaviors. Timeouts work well for this or taking the naughty dog out of the fun for a bit. Crates are a great place to sit and think for a bit, calm down, or spend quiet time alone or with a bone when someone is cranky or being annoying. Make sure they receive adequate exercise outside, running, walking, etc. together. Not necessarily just in the yard, but out and about. Also, work on training with both, even if you just do the Ian Dunbar sit-down-stand routine before/during each meal.

If you are dead-set on having both dogs in the bed, if the older dog is nasty, she sleeps on the floor. If the younger dog is hyper, she sleeps on the floor. You need to establish the bed as yours and let them know that there are rules on the bed. Those rules should include sharing and being quiet and calm. If your puppy is crazy at bedtime, she's not getting enough exercise during the day, so you need to up that. I would also up the older dog's exercise.

Most of the dogs I know with behavior issues are owned by people who treat them like humans and give lots and lots of love, but little to no training, rules, or exercise. If you've ever met a kid without training, rules, or exercise...well, it's really just the same.

[BeataK]

Cannot add much to the post of Labradorks.
Can only share how it works in our family. We allow both dogs in our bed, but that's our choice + they both know it's our bed, their beds are on the sides of ours'. Barney had a bit of issues when we moved Shelby from downstairs to our bedroom (while toilet training she was sleeping in her crate in dogs room) but we just didn't allow that - for few days any of the dogs couldn't jump on our bed; he even growled once at her when she was trying to climb up but he was told off & both of them were send to their beds and it soon stopped. Dogs with clear boundaries are happier dogs; we love them to bits but they have to accept our rules.

[kimbersmom]

Labradorks gives great advice.

I just wanted to add that most of us have done similar things at some point- we love our dogs, and sometimes we forget they're not furry humans. The good news is that labs are amazingly trainable. I've found that in nearly* every case, behaviors can be modified in a week. But it has to be a consistent week. Let's say you decide you are going to have both dogs sleep on dog beds in your room. That means each night, you'll put them on their beds. Every time Reilly or Lily jumps on the bed, you put them back on their beds. The first few nights will be hard, but you have to stay strong! You and hubby can't say, "But she wants to be with us!" or "I can't take it anymore, I need my sleep!" You have to stay the course. If you do this, if you BOTH do this, you should see much less resistance within a few days. You just can't break.

*I'm talking regular lab stuff, not misbehavior due to traumatic events. Or puppy biting. Puppy biting can last forever.

[Tanya]

Fully agree with Labradorks.

We all mean well but it is essential to remember that dogs strive on consistancy, boundaries and leadership. letting them do as they please and treating them as beingst hat only need coddlign and love it missing a HUGE part of what dogs NEED desprately.

I love and coddle my dogs to an extent but if my dog growls at another dog to keep them off MY furniture they get booted off pronto. my couch not theirs. my decision who comes up and who does not and when.

In fact, if you allow this one thing to slide (older dog being allowed dto guard the bed), their relationship may become worse and worse as your younger dogs hits maturity (18-36 months) and you may find you have more fights on your hands that could have been prevented with some leadership and training on your part.

You need to work on your younger dogs confidence. training, consistancy, boundaries. daily. it's not ok for her to freak out cuz your husband goes to bed. she doesn't need any sort of punishment for it but it must be adresses ASAP and rehsaped into a better behaviour.

Did you work on crate training? desensitization? or did you just crate her? There are MANY steps you can take to make the crate a happy safe enjoyable place for a dog that begin before you force them in and clsoe teh door and leave. Gogole crates games by susan garett. Feed her in there (door open). Throw high value treats for her to go in and find. then work on crate games. Slowly start with closing the door for brief periods and letting her out, building on time and duration.

[JennS]

Thanks so much for the advice. I think I gave the wrong impression about Reilly's behavior. She is not nasty to humans or other animals, including Lilly. In fact, she is extremely sweet and tolerant of Lilly, despite Lilly being a pest to her a lot of the time. Lilly was not confined to the den and kitchen because of Reilly's preferences, but because Lilly had not demonstrated an ability to be in the rest of the house without having accidents and being generally destructive. Lilly is getting increasing freedom in the house as she demonstrates an ability to behave in other areas. Reilly is a well behaved, well adjusted and very loving dog, and I don't want to leave the impression that she is "nasty" to anyone or needs an attitude adjustment.

That being said, the responses were helpful in that I was seeing this problem only as an issue with Lilly's behavior, not Reilly's. I saw it this way mostly because Lilly starts her night time barking while I am still in the den with her, so it is not an issue of her being alone. She just wants my husband to come sleep with her, and so barks and carries on until he complies. In addition to my husband "having" to sleep in the den, this also results in my having to go to bed earlier than I want to (because my husband is sleeping in the den). That to me is more of her running the household (and, especially, my husband), and was what I am looking to stop.

If those of you with more experience think that the solution to this is to let Lilly sleep in our room (either going to bed when my husband and Reilly go to bed, or later, when she starts the barking thing), then we will take steps to make that work. I had thought that Reilly was within her rights to refuse to share the bed with Lilly, but it sounds like you all think I am looking at that wrong - it is not Reilly's bed, but our bed. Given that, the choices would be to make both dogs sleep on the floor or let both sleep on the bed. I am inclined to try to work on having both dogs in the bed. Although Reilly will not like it, she is pretty compliant and will likely go along with some work on our part. She is not aggressive to Lilly, and if we make it clear that Lilly gets to stay on the bed, Reilly should ultimately accept it.

On the last points made - about treating the dogs like humans, and not providing sufficient training and exercise - I suppose we could do better on all of these, but I think we do ok. My husband takes both dogs (together) for about a 45 minute walk in the morning, and a one hour walk in the evening. On the weekends, and sometimes week nights, he takes them where they can run off leash, swim in the creek, etc. That is plenty of exercise for Reilly, but Lilly needs more than that. We have three teenage kids, and they are pretty good about playing with Lilly in the den or the backyard after school and in the evenings - fetch, tug of war, etc. Lilly also engages Reilly in play/fighting a good bit, which I think Lilly enjoys a lot more than Reilly does, but Reilly tolerates it. Lilly has pretty high strung and has endless energy, and we should continue to work on getting her as much exercise as possible. And despite our utter failure with respect to creating a workable nightime routine, we do train our dogs, and they are pretty well behaved for the most part (well, Lilly still has a ways to go, but she is making progress!). I suppose we do treat them like humans somewhat, but we do our best to keep a good balance!

[JennS]

I just saw Tanya's post after I responded. Thank you for your advice. One question - you said:

"You need to work on your younger dogs confidence. training, consistancy, boundaries. daily. it's not ok for her to freak out cuz your husband goes to bed. she doesn't need any sort of punishment for it but it must be adresses ASAP and rehsaped into a better behaviour."

Do you have any thoughts on what we can do to work on Lilly's confidence, and reshape her behavior so that she doesn't freak out when my husband goes to bed? She actually doesn't do it when he first goes to bed. She is fine for a while, but then seems to decide that she wants him and freaks out if he doesn't come right away. Sometimes I can distract her for a little bit by giving her attention, a toy or bone, but she ultimately cranks back up again. I am just not sure how to make her stop behaving this way (apart from him coming to her, or allowing her to go to our room to sleep, which might work).

On the crate training, she will go in the crate to get treats or toys, and even to play somewhat, but freaks if we shut the door. She has some anxiety issues, and that just seems to set her off. We could and perhaps should work on it more, but basically just gave up on the crate. Our older dog is crate trained, and will go into the crate if we tell her to, but doesn't particularly like being in the crate and we use it infrequently.

[xracer4844]

One of your job as the leader of the “pack” is to show discipline. It’s not up to your older dog to not tolerate the pup on the bed. It’s up to the leader. Tanya is completely correct in saying “if my dog growls at another dog to keep them off my furniture they get booted off pronto”. It is not up to the dog that growls to determine who is allowed on the couch. It’s my couch. As pack leader, I would walk over to the dog that growls, jowl pinch him, and tell him that behaviour won’t be tolerated.

Dogs need to understand where they fall into the order of the pack. For example, in my home, I am the pack leader. Second is my girlfriend. Third is the dog. The dog is ALWAYS last. My dog sleeps in/on the bed with us. He knows that the bed does not belong to him. He knows that before he isn’t allowed on the bed before us. He knows that we can get into bed, get settled, and then we will call him up and he can get comfortable. BOTTOM LINE, he knows his place in our pack. He knows he needs to wait for his food – he can’t just charge in and start eating. He can’t walk through a doorway before me etc. My dog is a working dog. The reason I mention this is because it doesn’t matter how trained your dog is – I believe in still maintaining a solid pack structure in the home.

Labradorks’ post has a lot of great info. You are allowing your dogs to run your lives and your home and the only way to change that is with YOURSELF. When our dog was just a pup, he used to drive my girlfriends parents’ lab CRAZY. Their lab is 5. It took a year before their dog accepted ours. They are best friends now. They sleep together, play together, share with each other…however, it didn’t happen for quite some time. If their lab decided to snarl or growl at the pup, they would bonk that dog on the noggin and show him that it’s not up to him. It’s not his decision on who is allowed in the home. He got the message that he better put up with the pup. Now – we knew when the pup was driving him nuts and we would give corrections when necessary or split them up and let the older one relax. This is important too. A good pack leader will control play, and exercise and food – set boundaries, and rules. Most importantly, a pack leader stays calm, assertive, and CONSISTENT.

Honestly, I believe that your situation needs a lot of changes. It’s nothing that is a major problem…but it still needs to be addressed. I wouldn’t keep the pup separated from you at night. It is difficult on a dog to be separated – they get anxious and bark because they want attention. It’s hard a dog to be separated and left alone – especially a pup that you are raising as a family dog. If want to keep separating the pup at night – when she starts barking, honestly, because it’s just for attention I would correct it. I would jowl pinch her and tell her its bedtime. Bedtime means be quiet and sleep. It’s not an option. The minute you give in and show affection towards the barking – the dog is getting a really confusing message. The pup doesn’t understand or care that it’s bed time.

Any tips or thoughts on how to boost Lilly’s confidence: For starters, don’t separate her at night. Keep her in the room with you. Think of how it is on her…you are confining her to a space to be left on her own while you and the family go upstairs with your other dog for hours and hours. She is barking because she doesn’t want to be left alone – she wants attention. Like I said before, it’s hard on a dog to be separated from the family. Especially Labs. They are family dogs. I also believe that confining her to an area in the home and not using a crate is why she is slow on potty training. Crates usually teach dogs to control their bladders much more quickly. I would really think about working with the crate if you can. It’s a great thing in my opinion.