Genetics question

[fidgetyknees]

I was looking at genetics chart's and Dudley labs are a result of breeding labs with certain color genetic combinations together. Example Yellow carrying chocolate to yellow carrying chocolate will result in 25% dudley pups. Same goes to yellow carrying chocolate to chocolate carrying yellow, will result in 25% Dudley pups as well .... so basically Dudley is a result of irresponsible breeding right? I am assuming there are tests to figure out the color genetics of a dog?

[Berna]

I am assuming there are tests to figure out the color genetics of a dog?

Yes.

[Maxx&Emma]

Yes to both questions.

[Charlotte K.]

Not necessarily so. Color mismark is among the least damaging physical flaws a Lab can have. I refer to "tweed" or splashed points as well as Dudley. I do not mean silver, which I do believe goes back to a mixed breed. Remember that color genetic tests are also relatively recent--the first ones sometimes failed in accuracy.

If a breeding were to be considered with health tested, beautiful, biddable, healthy, good working Labs, and the only known worry would be that they might produce a no black pigment pup, as when breeding a BYC to a YC or another BYC or others, that might not be the worst thing. A Dudley can be fixed in one more generation. I know a longtime breeder of service, as well as show, Labs who told me so. It is only a cosmetic flaw, although one I do not happen to like. I have come around to her point of view. That being said, I have not done a breeding where I would get Dudleys. I just am in love with a beautiful, well bred, obedient black Lab who once produced Dudleys that were unexpected by both owners.

[dxboon]

I think if someone is purposely breeding to get dudleys, that's an issue. There's nothing reputable about breeding for disqualifying features. God knows there's a big market of people out there who LOVE something "rare" and "unique" like a dudley and will pay good money for it, especially when the dog is labeled "champagne" or some similarly made-up color.

[WhoopsaDaisy]

Not necessarily so. Color mismark is among the least damaging physical flaws a Lab can have. I refer to "tweed" or splashed points as well as Dudley. I do not mean silver, which I do believe goes back to a mixed breed. Remember that color genetic tests are also relatively recent--the first ones sometimes failed in accuracy. If a breeding were to be considered with health tested, beautiful, biddable, healthy, good working Labs, and the only known worry would be that they might produce a no black pigment pup, as when breeding a BYC to a YC or another BYC or others, that might not be the worst thing. A Dudley can be fixed in one more generation. I know a longtime breeder of service, as well as show, Labs who told me so. It is only a cosmetic flaw, although one I do not happen to like. I have come around to her point of view. That being said, I have not done a breeding where I would get Dudleys. I just am in love with a beautiful, well bred, obedient black Lab who once produced Dudleys that were unexpected by both owners.

What is a tweed or splashed point!? My SIL has a yellow that is not a Dudley but has kind of a black speckled nose. She is otherwise a very well bred looking lab.

[Sam I Am]

Yes, there are tests to see what colors a dog carries. For example, I DNA tested my yellow to see if she carries chocolate because there is a chocolate several generations back (she doesn't). Some people with chocolates will test to see if they carry yellow. Blacks can be tested for both. It's not the end of the world to have a liver pigmented yellow crop up in a litter, and I wouldn't necessarily discount a really superior dog just because he carries it, but responsible breeders don't *purposely try* for it just to use it as a way to sell "rare" pups.
As an aside, there is also a DNA test for dilute. I also tested to prove she does NOT carry it. (I think more breeders will start doing that to protect their lines and reputation now that OFA includes those results in their database.)

[JenC]

I don't really view a yellow with chocolate pigment a product of irresponsible breeding. Nowadays, there is no reason for breeders not to know what colors their dogs carry, thus they can avoid producing that color combo because it cannot be shown. Just like I tested Jagger, who's black and had a chocolate parent and a black parent that carried yellow. I know he's black and only carries chocolate.

The "bad" part of yellows with chocolate pigment is that it's not allowed in the show ring. So if you have a reputable breeder who produces one, the fear (Murphy's Law) is that the best structured pup will be the color you can't show. For pets, they tend to be picked first. I think breeders prefer not to produce that color but if the best two parents could produce it, I don't think anyone's avoiding it. Just like it used to be "Taboo" to breed chocolate and yellow together, but I think folks are becoming smarter these days.

[Charlotte K.]

Splashed puppies look as though they were splashed with mud. You try to rub it off and there is a tweed effect , with lighter hairs, a brindle point. I believe it may be on the K locus. I will check.

[windycanyon]

Actually it is a Lab w/o pigment (pink) which is not allowed. I'm sure some judges would fault a yellow w/ a chocolate nose but there have been dogs that finished w/ it.
That all said, I have been hoping to do a line breeding back to a choc foundation stud in my lines, and my girls that would be a great match all carry yellow (as does he). I mentioned that to a long time breeder friend of mine a few weeks ago and she chewed me out for being so anal about the eebb thing. Honestly, if I thought I'd get the choc pigment instead of the NBP (pink) in my yellows, I'd do it in a heart beat. That'd just not be my luck though....