Aggressive Lab

[wvaughn]

First of all I am a new poster and may have posted this in an incorrect section of this site. If so, please let me know and I will repost. We are Lab Lovers. We have a 9 year old yellow lab, a 7 year old chocolate lab. We introduced another chocolate lab 18 months ago. Within the past 3 months, the new pup is showing aggressive behavior with the older Lab. Trying to show dominance. When this happens, both the yellow and the pup get into it. Bow up, growl, basically go chest to chest. We need help!! Afterward the separation, the pup will go back to the yellow lab and kiss and make up. This isn't a daily occurrence as they play great most of the time. We always feed and treat the labs by seniority. But what can we do to understand and avoid this confrontation. Any help from the other members would be most appreciated.

Thanks. Bill

[xracer4844]

When you say aggressive and "trying to show dominance" what is exactly happening? What kind of aggressive behaviour is your pup displaying?

There is a big difference between playing, growling, correcting each other (which I guess looks like aggressive behaviour) to a full on angry posutring, hackles up, teeth bearing etc. You mention you feed and treat the labs "by seniority". Is this when your labs become aggressive?

[wvaughn]

Ok, let me try to clarify. When Kasey was first brought home (at 8 wks), for the first few months there was some correcting from the older labs. Mainly from the younger of the two older labs (Mocha - 7 yrs). Though it scared us at first, we allowed it and did not stop the behavior from the older dogs. Then about 3 months ago, some very aggressive behavior started. It has been between Kasey (18 months) and either Maddi ( 9 yrs) or Mocha. Kasey is always involved initially and usually the 3rd one comes in to back up her sister. Now to describe the aggressive behavior. Hackles are up and teeth are bared. The last time this happened, Maddi was bleeding from two small bite marks on her snout. I swear sometimes it looks like it started over nothing. Like two of them meet between a chair and maybe one didn't move out of the way?? Food, toys, chew toys, etc. do not have to be involved. We never have trouble at meal time and feed them oldest to youngest. Also, this isn't a daily event. Normally, they play rough, share toys and sleep together on our bed.

[xracer4844]

I work with aggressive dogs and breeds so I'll try my best to help you out. I'm going to assume you reacted in an excited, anxious, nervous, possible angry and upset state...as most people would. Unfortunately this is an excited reactive state. The dogs were also in an excited reactive state. What does this all mean? Well because you are now in an excited reactive state and the dogs look to you for guidance and direction - their behavior is reinforced by your own. They don't realize that you are upset at them. The tension raises. The next mistake is to separate dogs while they are in "fight mode". Posturing, Hackles, Teeth - all fight mode. When you remove them from each other and put them into separated rooms while still in this "fight mode" - they will most likely fight again. This is because there was no outcome. You are reinforcing that fight mode is normal and will be tolerated. It's one thing to do this to dogs that don't live together on a daily basis...but dogs that live together need to learn how to live together. You need to show them an alternative to fighting. Calming them down while in the presence of one another removes them from fight mode and reinforces good social behavior is expected. It's also a good test on how your dogs view you as their pack leader.

I also want to add that interrupting dogs in fight mode can have consequences. Intervening without knowledge on how to intervene, how to stop a fight, how to handle your dogs are all ways to get bitten. Yes dogs bite when they are in fight mode. Even labs. Reading body language is usually the most important thing. I don't know how severe your labs are getting - although labs are usually pretty easy to handle in fight mode. In the most extreme situations, abused dogs, very dominant agressive dogs, I'll let them bite me. Give them a target, and then with assistance usually, release their bite and then get them into a calm state. There are different techniques, such as jowl pinching to take control away from a dog. I'm sure you could read about them on the internet if you decided to do some research. My suggestion is to leave this for people who know what they are doing. Don't try to handle a dangerous situation on your own because when someone who lacks experience tries to do this...they usually get themselves or someone else hurt.

Usually these issues arise because the dogs are not shown how to live together. That comes down to leadership. I'm not blaming you at all. It's totally NORMAL. Most people have no idea why their dogs fight and they don't understand how to get them to stop. My #1 suggestion would be to find an animal behaviorist that can explain to you why your dogs act the way they do, and how to change this behavior in the future. They will possibly observe your dogs. Notice cues that you are giving to the dogs (that you don't even realize) and will come up with a training regime or plan to hopefully stop this from happening again.

[Tanya]

honestly it is VERY hard to get a read of a situation based on description and not being able to see the dogs and read them. We humans miss A LOT of things in dog interactions.

First - get rid of all toys and bones. They can come out when dogs are seperated and removed if they are in teh same room.

Second - get a trainer to come to your home. If you want solid advise for your specifici situation you need to have a professional come meet the dogs and ASSESS the situation and the interactions. Nothing online will compare to that. Look for a soild experienced trainer behaviorist prefereably onet hat doesn't go on and on about alpha and domiance. Bullying dogs into behaving will make things worse. You want to have control and be head of the house but you don't need to use bully techniques for it (there are an entire branch of training based on bullying and intimidation - avoid that).

Ensure they eat seperately and remove bowls.

From a previous post it sounds like mch of the issues happen when toys are involved.

Be proactive. If the girls are interacting you need to be watching and step in BEFORE things blow up. you can learn to read the triggers, dogs always posture or hold thesmelves in a way before shit hits the roof, you need to intervene THERE, not after.

The younger dog - read up and implement nothing in life is free (NILF). Make her work for everything. In fact I may opt to do this with ALL the dogs. You manage all ressources. Including affection (you don't withhold it, you just decide when to offer it and ask for a behaviour, like sit, first - you don't offer it because they came to you and nudged you).

[Snowshoe]

This is weird. I posted after the OP's latest and sometimes my post is there and sometimes it's not. Can anybody else see it? Should be after the OP and before xracer.

[Tanya]

there are two threads with the same title (and probably first post). One in Welcome Wagon and one here.
https://www.lab-retriever.net/board/w...html#post53768

[Snowshoe]

Ahhhh. Thought I was losing my mind, thanks Tanya.

[wvaughn]

Thanks xracer. We will keep a close eye and if the behavior doesn't change, we plan on calling in a professional for help. I appreciate the time you took in responding to my inquiry.

[Labradorks]

Thanks xracer. We will keep a close eye and if the behavior doesn't change, we plan on calling in a professional for help. I appreciate the time you took in responding to my inquiry.

I would probably call in a professional now instead of waiting for change or worse, waiting for a straw to break the camel's back. The longer you let it go on, the harder it will be to fix things, and in the meantime, someone could get hurt -- including yourself or someone visiting your home. Not saying the advice you received is not good, but without someone there seeing things happen and without someone seeing how YOU handle the dogs -- often these things have more to do with lack of leadership and confidence on the part of the owner -- the advice could be completely irrelevant. And, same goes for someone actually showing you the right way to handle things. Three Labs is a lot to handle even on the best days, but when you can't relax for fear of a fight, that's miserable.