To clicker or not to clicker... Video overload!

[PamelaJ.]

Hello,

3 weeks and counting until my bundle of joy arrives! I have been watching youtube videos of clicker training, shaping, positive reinforcement, etc. I have way too much free time at night. My husband is working a long overtime shift of 2 weeks duration ..and well..what better way to pass the time then watch puppies!

I just wanted to throw out a general question of .. Favorite trainer? Do you find one method works better for you?

I have a few names of local trainers that I am looking into attending some classes.

[Labradorks]

What are you planning on doing with your dog? Pet, rally, obedience, agility, field, or ???

I clicker train for some things and find that it makes the process faster and the dog more exuberant, whether for tricks, every day manners or exercises that you'd take into a competition venue. If you do it right, it's very precise which is also great for dogs that need to know they are doing things the right way. Instills a lot of confidence.

I'm personally a big Denise Fenzi fan. She is definitely a positive trainer, but technically, you can't be 100% positive. I mean, if you withhold a treat, that is negative, right? Her methods are science based and relationship with your dog is the first step toward success. Her methods are fun and positive and truly endorphine-producing, for both dog and handler. And, I like to know the why behind the method, and she always explains it. It's certainly changed my training philosophy and improved my dog's performance by 110%. It has definitely made me a better trainer. In fact, about a year ago I started over with everything using her methods and it's like I have a different dog. I've seen it in other dogs as well, not to mention in people. It's actually pretty emotional to see the changes sometimes.

There are a few others I like OK as they have some good ideas in certain areas, and maybe better videos or a better way to explain something, but I always go back to Denise. I trust her methods and I feel comfortable in knowing that she practices what she preaches. The other thing I like about Denise is that she has no ego and genuinely cares. She keeps a blog (free) and is active on social media, helping people through issues. She'll post her own mistakes and how she worked through them as well as helping out others. In workshops she'll help someone with something with a dog, and if it's not working, she'll say so and suggest other things to try, or she'll say, it's just your dog (typically with temperament issues) and you have to work around it. She does not claim to be a behaviorist. She's just a wonderful human being who has created a very caring and supportive community of dog trainers.

[PamelaJ.]

Thanks for the input Labradorks! I am only training to have a well mannered pet, and a happy mommy/daddy ( I hope) ! It just find it all so interesting watching the quick results. I think it has been so long since I had to train my last puppy 15 yrs ago, I just want a refresher. I did not do any formal training with him, but he was very eager to please and I never had any " naughty" behaviors to correct. ( food stealing, accidents in the house, running out the door, or going off property) I am sure there was a shoes that got nibbled on as a puppy, but honestly can't recall.

I will look for Denise. I hadn't heard of her in my research yet. Thanks!!

[K10]

I second everything labradorks said! I'm a new Denise Fenzi fan, but am so glad that I've learned about her. I definitely did some things in a way that was just not going to work for my dog and I in the long run, and am in the process of, well, pretty much starting over. I'm finding that Denise Fenzi's books, videos, and blog posts are very easy for me to follow, easy to understand, and in a short amount of time, I'm already seeing my dog and myself come out of a rut that I had gotten us into with training. Denise's way of training makes absolute sense to me, which keeps me motivated, and keeps things fun for both me and my dog. Having a strong relationship with my dog is important to me, and Denise Fenzi has, in my opinion, mastered the art of creating a phenomenal relationship, and giving one the ability to have a dog who not only meets the training challenges that you aim to meet with your dog, but who enjoys being presented with a new challenge! I say definitely give her a try!

[Labradorks]

PamelaJ, Denise Fenzi also has a pet training blog that she just started to accompany a new book (should be released within the next month) for pet dog people that focuses on getting your dog to behave outside of your house or yard. It is appropriately called, "Beyond the Backyard: Train Your Dog to Listen Anytime, Anywhere!". The forward is written by Ian Dunbar, so perhaps his books and blogs, etc. are a good place to start when you get a puppy? With the book, she also has free lesson plans for instructors teaching pet classes. It looks like it's going to be a good program. Another good book by is called "The Focused Puppy" by Deb Jones. She is a PhD and co-writes books with Denise.

[Tanya]

agree with the above. also, lots has changed in the training world in the last 15-20 years so good to look around (changed - well that depends what you used back then, for some it's more of the same).

I HIGHLY recommend finding a puppy class (for puppies who don't have all their shots). It's a safe place to socialize the dog (not just to other dogs but people, new place, and the class should introduce other things like sounds, textures, etc.). Plus - a class of puppies, how much fun is that

Methods: I tend to always try positive training techniques first, setting the dog up for success (VS skipping to the use of punishment/aversives right away to set them up to fail then "correct" as per the "moderate" or "dominance" based methods).

I like Ian Dunbar, he is wonderful and really took the time to learn about/work with dogs. his website Dog Star Daily has TONS and TONS of info and articles.
Dog Star Daily

Veronica Stilwell
Victoria Stilwell Positively | The Official Victoria Stilwell Website

Patricia McConnell
Patricia McConnell PH.D. | McConnell Publishing Inc.

Tons of WONDERFUL great information at Dr Sophia Yin's page
Animal Behaviorist | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

Some of my favorite books/authors are Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash (worth seeing if the local library has it)
| Blog by Jean Donaldson
CULTURE CLASH - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com

and The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell
The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs: Patricia McConnel Ph.D.: 9780345446787: Books - Amazon.ca

And
Sophia Yin's How to Behave so your Dog Behaves
How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS


Good luck

[zd262]

Hi PamelaJ!

Just to throw out an alternative that you could research, I liked the "idea" of the clicker method, but not the idea of having to carry around a clicker. So I use "verbal marking" instead. Which is basically every time you would click your clicker, I instead say "yes" (which is my word). If I was sitting next to my dog and I said "yes" in my usually praise-y voice, he would whip his head around expecting the treat that usually comes after (Click and treat when teaching behaviors).

Good luck!

[Tanya]

Hi PamelaJ!

Just to throw out an alternative that you could research, I liked the "idea" of the clicker method, but not the idea of having to carry around a clicker. So I use "verbal marking" instead. Which is basically every time you would click your clicker, I instead say "yes" (which is my word). If I was sitting next to my dog and I said "yes" in my usually praise-y voice, he would whip his head around expecting the treat that usually comes after (Click and treat when teaching behaviors).

Good luck!

this works (though the theory for the clicker is it's not emotional and always the same "sound" and that human reflexes are quicker than your speaking). I generally use a vocal marker for day to day stuff. I would just pick a word I wont' accidentally use day to day because the cue/marker should always be accompanied by a treat (even if you say it by accident). one says yes very often so it may not work as well as a "cue".

[Labradorks]

The verbal marker definitely does not work as well as the clicker, but I would not discourage it as it certainly has its place in training and is better than nothing! Some people make a clicker noise with their mouths that seems to work better than the verbal, but not as well as the clicker. I can watch a video of someone training and using a verbal like I do when I'm not using a clicker and my dogs will pay attention, but if I watch a video and someone is using a clicker, they will stand up, stare, cock their heads, wag their tails and even offer behaviors to the television (I rarely watch TV since before getting Linus so he is still not sure exactly how it works). I would say that I use verbals more than the clicker and I reward the same way.

[Snowshoe]

Chiming in on clicker versus YES, we were taught both. I was spastic with YES (which is not a word I use for much else. Being a sloppy speaker I tend to say yeah) but for some reason could manage leash, treats, dog and clicker all at the same time. I agree the clicker was a much stronger marker for me but out on a walk I don't carry it and sometimes a resounding YES is warranted and does work there too.

You mention "clicker training, shaping, positive reinforcement" but those are not mutually exclusive, which it seems to me maybe you think they are? All three could be used in one fell swoop in a training exercise. Sorry if I am misunderstanding.

My favourite trainer is the one we go to in person. I'm not good at reading or watching and then acting on my own. I need someone to watch me and then tell me step by step what part I did wrongly. Occasionally even rightly.