So many breeders, so little time (Just general curiosity)

[Murrisha]

Before my boyfriend and I concluded we wanted an older puppy/adolescent dog with some basic training under his/her belt, we were looking at puppies. Mainly because I have 6 cats and a 14-year-old Shih Tzu and he has young nieces and nephews around his house often, and although I am all for rescue dogs, I have seen and experienced some of them to be unpredictable given their unknown background and previous lives. This is of course no fault of the dog, but things like food aggression and generalized fear/aggression can be difficult to manage especially in either of our households. I love all of my animals and would not want an errant bite or fear result in an injury to a child or one of my other pets. Anyways, all of that went out the window when we adopted our 14-month-old yellow boy and discovered he is as sweet as can be. We joke that he doesn't even know what "meanness" is because even with the cats swat him or other dogs snap/lunge at him aggressively, he thinks it's all a big game and tries to play.

All that aside, visiting various lab forums, reading horror stories, and LRC articles convinced me to do a ton of research before I was thinking of buying a puppy. However, when I was looking at various breeders, I noticed that a lot of the dogs don't have the expected "handsome" look of a labrador. I am not very knowledgeable over the breed, however I've read over the standard for fun and know there's a distinction between those labs bred for field work and those bred for bench conformation. Though I prefer the look of field labs and Teller (our new baby) does not meet the breed standard with his long supermodel legs, narrow hips, etc. (we sometimes joke that his front half is lab and his back half is baby deer), it was sort of sad to me to see all these breeders who do nothing with their dogs and labs that more closely resemble bulls in body and mastiffs in the face. I understand some breeders produces "companion pets," which is what my Shih Tzu is, but it just bothers me when I see all these labs that don't retrieve, swim, and just lay on the couch all day. I'm sure they are great dogs and perfect for whatever family chooses them, but as a dog lover it irks me to see labs bred into oversized lap dogs. Unlike Shih Tzus, labs have historically had a purpose and one which they did quite well, and to me a lab should be a sturdy, graceful, active animal with a desire to do what it was bred for, not a giant, lumbering behemoth of a dog with zero energy and no drive. I know temperament is a major part of the standard, but it isn't the only thing that should define a breed. That's just my unprofessional opinion, though, lol. Btw, all this came about after looking at a few breeders with studs that looked like mastiffs and girls that looked like sad, droopy cows.

That concludes my rant, but in all seriousness, a few years down the road, I will be looking for a companion for Teller. This time around I will be done with school and settled, or at least I will be before buying a puppy from a breeder. I am looking for a puppy from field-bred lines as it will be a hunting companion. I already know what genetic tests to look for from the breeder before getting a puppy and to look for a puppy with a lot of field and hunting titles in their pedigree. I was looking at Swift Creek Labradors in MO and found a plethora of field breeders in the Midwest and West, but I live in the Southeast and do not want to travel that far or have a puppy shipped. Does anybody have any recommendations concerning reputable breeders in the Southeast? Also, on that side note, I noticed that one of the sires of various litters was an EIC carrier. Should I avoid situations like this? The dam was EIC clear and the breeders do all the genetic tests on the puppies. Other than that he was a beautiful dog titled HRCH and MH. I've looked on the retrieverresults website at various dogs that were FC, NFC, AFC, etc. but what is a good way to find offspring of these winners?

[Tanya]

MOST breeders are "pet dog breeders". labs are super super popular so lots of breeders are just breeding "pets". they don't show nor buy from show breeders. they don't compete in field or hunt nor buy from hunting/field lines. they just breed a cute lab to another cute lab and then sell puppies. this has lead to most labs you see out and about being all over the map as far as looks (height, weight, lenght) but also some variations in temperment. I have met tons of labs with completely non-lab temperment lately.

Note that ALL breeder produce companion dogs. Even champion dogs from champion parents won't produce a litter of champions. They hope there is a keeper or two that may "turn out well" (in field or in conformation). the rest are perfectly wonderful family dogs.

I am currently searching for a breeder. I look at dogs I like (and randomly find) and then look if they do all clearances and compete (in conformation but I also want drive/workability so looking at more than just "does well in conformation"). Specifically I am looking for smaller lines (I call it a more "moderate" look). But then beyond that I have a long list of requirements I want in a breeder (which will make my search difficult haha). My personal issue is I find the field dogs too pointy and the conformation labs too big - so I look for that magical middle zone

Look at your local (or as local as possible) breed club, go to shows and meet some dogs, it's the best way to start. Or if you are more intresting in the hunting aspect, look up your local hunting/retriever group and participate/volunteer.

Note that the lab should actually have a wide/big head as per the standard

Maybe this is the club closests to you? I am not good with american geography so maybe someone else can point you to another club galrc.com | GALRC

[Murrisha]

Yes, that's perfect, and close-by too. I hadn't thought of getting involved with these clubs because I've heard a lot of negative press about them and their snobbery. But, I will definitely check this one out!

I also like a moderate look. Teller looks to be as field-bred as they come with his greyhound looking body, thin coat/tail, and long legs; although he has a giant head (probably just because of his body size). Sometimes he makes me cringe when he is running around and I get to see his skeleton. We are trying to put weight on him currently because despite what the vet insists, he looks WAY too scrawny. I also cringe when I see dogs that have stubby little legs, giant heads, barrel chests, and huge bodies. How is a lab that looks like a basset hound supposed to retrieve anything?! I love animals and think they are all cute, but I've lately seen some UGLY labradors. Honestly, some look more like pigs with their little eyes, flappy jowls, and waddling gait. What happened to all the handsome specimens you associate with the breed? Although, this is true for every popular breed. I see plenty of really poorly bred lab, golden, GSD, bulldog, malamute, husky, poodle, etc. examples too.

I don't necessarily want a guaranteed champion, but I want a natural hunter that has a great temperament, is healthy, a good breed specimen, and a quick learner. From what I've read on various forums and articles, I should look for breeders who enter their dogs in some sort of event and a pedigree with dogs that have been proven.

Below is Teller in a lazy point and making a very attractive face with his over-sized head and mismatched chest/back half, lol.

[arentspowell]

Murrisha, you may want to look around at some of the labs on this board. We have a lot of show folks here on this board.

[barry581]

Welcome to the board and thanks for adopting Teller. In your post in the Welcome Wagon you mention Teller was only 11 months old, and had been previously tied outside and was underweight. I think with the right food and exercise you'll be surprised at how much he will fill in and he gets older.

I've been on this board for over three years, and can tell you we've had some pretty heated debates regarding how Labs look and the whole field vs bench Lab thing. Do a search and enjoy!

Personally I still believe a Lab can look like and Lab and still be very competent dogs in the field.

[Labradorks]

How do you know that the Labs you speak of have no drive? Plenty of conformation Labs have drive. And, there are overdone conformation Labs, just as there are overdone field Labs. It's not something you can accurately pigeon-hole.

[JenC]

Carriers of any disease isn't a problem. An EIC carrier is just a designation, what matters is what the breeder does knowing this. A carrier bred to a clear will produce 50% clear dogs, 50% carriers. Carriers are just that, CARRIERS. They do not express the disease, but bred to another carrier will product Affected dogs. The goal is to not produce Affected. It doesn't matter if you have a carrier. And it doesn't matter if a carrier is bred. If you are buying a companion dog, it certainly won't matter if your dog is a carrier.

[Murrisha]

How do you know that the Labs you speak of have no drive? Plenty of conformation Labs have drive. And, there are overdone conformation Labs, just as there are overdone field Labs. It's not something you can accurately pigeon-hole.

I should have clarified that a lot of my friends (from all over the US) have and have had labs before. I wanted to do as much research as I could before I got a dog and I asked my friends about their dogs (all of them from various breeders). I asked them if they hunted with their dogs, participated in any events, showed them, etc. and if their dogs displayed any hunting potential. Out of everyone I spoke to, only a couple of people I knew had dogs that worked in the field (both of them beautiful English labs). The rest of them told me their labs loved water, fetch, and playing, but other than that were the gentlest creatures and didn't chase squirrels or show interest in birds/other prey.

I apologize for sounding too generalized but where I live, a lot of people just have dogs for companionship and nothing more. And there is nothing wrong with that. I know there are extremes at both ends of the spectrum; personally I think Teller is way too field-like and most people think he's a pitbull mix, full-on mutt, or a golden retriever, which begs the question, if his tail isn't fat enough to meet lab standards, how the heck could he be a golden, lol? On the contrary, I see plenty of bench labs involved in field sports and field-bred labs as regular, old pets online and when I travel. I've met more lazy, lumbering labs of all ages near me than those who had the expected lab energy. I would like my second companion to be more in the middle between bench and field. I've also seen certain breeders tout how their dogs are family companions and don't chase animals or have high prey drives, although that could all be a lie.

[windycanyon]

When it comes the time you are looking for a 2nd lab, just let us know. I bet there will be some nice working litters in your area. The RTF (Retriever Training Forum) often has nice litters advertised too. Best of luck! Anne

[fidgetyknees]

I was at a National AKC Lab event a couple of weeks ago and there were bench labs in the Field Events, Agility and Obedience. The ones I saw were not all heavy and over done, but there were a few who would look better loosing 10-20lbs. Somebody from my agility group said the bench entries were low because the parent lab club had not done enough to crack down on the exaggerated labs, but I don't know how true this is, I don't run in those circles. And saying bench don't have drive is not totally true, you can definitley find breeders who have drivy bench labs (my of my favorite agility people is a bench lab bReeder and hers have plenty of drive). I am a field bred lab person myself and I really like super drive, but that kind of dog is a lot more work, so you really have to think long and hard on whether that is what you really want, and find the bench or field breeder that breeds the level of activity and drive you want. The bench you will obviously have to research the drive of the parents and the field you will have to make sure they don't have too much drive for you .... my pup is definitley not suitable to a lot of people because he is very extremely intense, wants to work all the time and has incredible drive and is as high as a kite a lot of the time (and a snuggle bug) - I am fairly sure he will be brilliant at everything he ever competes in, but he is a lot of dog, as is my 4 year old.