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  1. #1
    Senior Dog Scoutpout's Avatar
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    Doubles introduced

    Got together with the training group today, 1st time in 3 weeks now i think. And nothing again next week, ba humbug, we're away at a Rally and Obed show, last one of the year for us. The weather has been really much warmer than normal, today wasn't into the high 60's like earlier in the week, but it was sunny and about 48 when we started, and warmed up to almost 58 by the time we were done at noon.

    Scout did back to back singles in the water, kept them short and i left a longline on him anticipating a potential return to bad habits with bank running (very narrow pond, and he swears the sun (or at least ducks) shines from one of the other handlers who was throwing the birds). But he did fabulous - nice straight swim out, and a lovely swim back, and both birds to hand, all with minimum noise from me (whistle at pick-up,and one call, and a finally call as he's scrambling up the bank), yay! The other dogs today were all GR, and none of the handlers wanted to do water.

    So land work - boy do we need more work if we're going to progress. And i've said it before, but my not teaching him HOLD is really a problem. (We work a bit every evening on it, but not getting very far with it. He will happily reach for the bumper/dumbell etc, but we're not getting much further). He's super for parts, but blech for others, and its me not having taught him a few basic things like the hold. So doing back-to-back singles 1st, that goes ok for the 1st bird, back to me and i can take it, then the next bird he takes a very circular route back, and drops the bird 8ft from me. and won't pick it back up. kennels up while others run. back to try it again. and 1st bird straight out, gets it (we're running in a hayfield thats clover-y and just below the knee high, and using parts where its up and down hill for them) with scent, starts coming back, and again, decides to take a more round-about way, and again, drops the bird 8ft from me. this time picks it up when asked, but doesn't quite bring it all the way to me. 2nd bird, nice straight run to the bird, then stop for a pee (holding the bird), then a sniff, then trots back in my direction, and this time actually brings it close enough i can get the bird. But, he';s holding them too hard, and he licked the one he dropped, and i think he was about to chomp it when he went to pick it up. I need to stop this before it becomes any more of a habit! I have heard/read about people somehow putting brushes or bristles on bumpers to help with mouthing, but not sure if thats a good idea? and how to do that with a bird? or do it with bumper/dokken and put wings around the whole thing?

    The longline worked wonders in just 2 goes fixing the bank running that last time out on the water. But the cover is too thick and the throws further on land for the line to work. Maybe do some shorter throws that don't overreach the longline, on smoother/shorter surfaces, to see if that would help get him in all the way without dropping the bird?

    Introduced doubles to the group. Some of the handlers have done them before, but none of the dogs have. It went well. 1st bird from the "short" line is thrown, dog gets to get it. 2nd bird from the short line is thrown to become the memory bird. 3rd bird from the "long" line is thrown, dog gets to get it, then dog is placed, and sent back for that 2nd (memory) bird on the short line. The next time the drill is done, there is no "1st" bird on the short line, just the memory bird, then dog goes for the long bird, then gets sent back for the memory bird. We ran that with just the memory and 2nd bird twice. Really cool to watch the dogs go "wait! i should be going for that bird there! but you've got me line up for this long one!" and see them go out for the long one, and then know they've got another to go get. Scout was a good boy, watched the memory bird, then lined up and went out for the long bird, when he ran out for the long one, he glanced over where the memory bird was but didn't interrupt his straight line out for the long bird. same thing on the way back, glanced over toward the memory bird, but right back to me, and then into heel for the memory bird, no problem.

    And actually, typing it out, maybe thats part of the problem with him returning to me with the birds - is he thinking i take them away? and with the memory bird, he KNEW he was going to get to go get another bird, so no problem bringing the long bird back to me? oh i wish they could talk english sometimes!

    Anyway, still lots of work to do with holds and returns and not dropping the bird and licking the bird....whew. and soon, it will be too miserable to be working outdoors with the birds, sigh... although the way the weather is holding, it would be super to get to the end of November before having to take a break! Soooo glad this group invited Scout to come train with them, he really has found what he loves to do, I just need to get going on teaching him better!

  2. #2
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    Sounds fun and boy did this make me miss the field work!

    I had the issue with Linus on the dilly dallying on land, taking a whiz, etc. bringing the bird back. I thought through what the issue might be (along with my trainer). Sometimes it's stress, but why? Does he not want to give the bird back? Is he unsure exactly what I want of him?

    So, I started doing formal recalls in the field (long, over hills, in shadows, etc.) and not allowing him to air off leash. I think this helped him understand my expectations in the field. It was familiar. He likes that! We would make it fun and put a dead duck in his path which he would scoop up on his way in.

    If he was coming in with the duck, I let him hold onto it for awhile. This was especially important to him if it was the first retrieve AND a live flyer. On days when it was hot and we were running him far, I'd even let him lay down and hold it. He'd come in holding the bird and I'd just pet him and get excited over him and let him keep it for a bit. He'd come in and sit and I'd just release him without taking the bird. Or, I'd take the bird, praise him, and toss the bird for him as a reward.

    It took about two weeks to fix the land retrieve and have him bringing the bird to me just as fast as he was in getting it.

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  4. #3
    Real Retriever Coalman's Avatar
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    A handler and their dog.

    Doesn't get much better than that no matter the outcome.

    Looking forward to progress updates.

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    Scoutpout (11-16-2015)

  6. #4
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    We are in same process of teaching doubles to Huggie. One of the ways we have found that helps with the long memory bird is to do a silent rethrow. Huggie's biggest problem right now is she is a social butterfly and wants to go and visit the thrower. I had forgotten how much there is to teach a young dog.

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    Scoutpout (11-11-2015)

  8. #5
    Senior Dog Scoutpout's Avatar
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    I will remember that when we switch it up for the long memory bird, thank you. Scout always looks at the throwers and a i swear smiles at them, usually with bird in mouth! He's got to show what he's got...

    And for a bull-headed guy, he can be surprisingly "sensitive" - ie, on the 2nd try I think it was, he started turning toward the short memory bird, instead of continuing the line to the long 2nd bird. A quick "ah ah" and he turned and was coming back to me with the strangest look on his face. Lined him up again and sent him for the long bird, and he went no problem, then no problem for the memory bird-i worried after the "ah ah" if he'd go or not.

    In many ways I am scared silly about getting another dog this coming year.... worried that I won't do right by the pup and somehow "wreck" the training, won't be able to bring out the pup's full potential, worried that that special bond Scout and I have will go away... Yikes. a little neurotic for someone who has said she'd have 10 if she could! and with having 2 the last go-round, said she wanted a third! I'm sure i'm over-worrying it.
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    Missing:
    Castelleja's Dual Mags "Mags" March 1993 - March 2008
    "Pocco" the chocolate wonder August 1993 - December 2007

  9. #6
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    When teaching a long bird have your thrower watch to see if the dog is breaking down (looking back. maybe indicating a return to an old fall, starting to hunt short etc) if any of this is happening simply have the thrower throw out another bird. When M was really young she would tear out to the fall area and if she didn't step on the bird she would sit down, so we did two things. As she was tearing out we just threw another bird. Another way to help with this was to salt the area. We would put out two or three extra bird so that when she got to the fall area she was sure to find a bird. When first teaching blinds we use this method as well. Put several birds out in a line, Close together so that when the dog gets to the blind area a bird is easy to find. Refining the line comes later as the confidence is already built.
    As to a second dog don't worry I have 5. The two old ones still like to come out and have few short marks thrown for them. Chant is semi retired and she comes with me all the time, runs a short mark and then the blind. The relationship is still as strong as ever. Wallace is an adoptee and doesn't do any type of work but he still comes for the ride and play time at the end. Of course M is like a burr stuck to me at all times. The only problem with multiple dogs is I have no privacy and the couch gets awfully crowded.

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  11. #7
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    I'm in the process of teaching the formal HOLD w/ Ruby right now. Some dogs can continue to do marks while doing their formal obed work, but I am not sure I'd do marks w/ your boy if it's going to break your obed down. It's great that he is reaching for his bumper etc though!!! That would be my cue that he's ready to get HEELING/ moving (and yes, I mean HEEL) w/ that object in his mouth. Add Sits, about turns, etc (think Novice or Advanced Rally courses) to your routine. He is to hold until you say Out or Give or whatever the magic word is. They have to walk and chew gum at some point before combining all the rest of it. Until he has a GREAT HOLD, I'd not even attempt doubles.
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    Scoutpout (11-16-2015)

  13. #8
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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  14. #9
    Real Retriever Coalman's Avatar
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    You have down well with Scout. You will do well with a new puppy. Don't over think it. Just enjoy the puppy breath.

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  16. #10
    Senior Dog Scoutpout's Avatar
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    I can get him to heel and move with me when he brings back a toy from the yard, and pick it up and catch up if he drops it. so i will work that with his dumbell and dokkens to see how far we can get, but pretty much if i stop moving, he drops whatever it is. Do you just keep saying "hold" as he's holding whatever, and heeling around with you? I have always said "out" whenever i ask for the ball/toy/whatever i am wanting from him, but he hasn't made the connection between holding it UNTIL that word is uttered.
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    Scout CD RAE6 WC March 6, 2007; Tullemore Browning Superposed PCD RN RI "Trigger" Nov 11, 2016
    Missing:
    Castelleja's Dual Mags "Mags" March 1993 - March 2008
    "Pocco" the chocolate wonder August 1993 - December 2007

 



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