Stubborn Phase???

[Pondguy]

Within the last month and a half or so our nearly 1yr old lab has become unbelievably stubborn!!! Simple commands like sit, down, etc., things that he's known since 10-12 weeks, he suddenly seems to think are optional. The only time that his commands are now dead on are when he's being fed. He went through Puppy Kindergarten, General Obedience and now a 3rd time attempting Advanced Obedience 2 with our local dog training club. We keep failing Advanced Obedience 2 because he flat out refuses to walk on a loose leash. This is something we've worked on multiple times EVERYday since we brought him home at 8 weeks, and it's only getting worse. It's like he's become immune to his prong (which is fitted properly). No matter the positioning of the prong, he still pulls. We've tried multiple different methods including stopping when he pulls, changing direction when he pulls to no avail. He's always in a hurry it seems. We've gone through phases with the Gentle Leader, which I'm just not a big fan of and really hasn't made any difference when it's on...he still keeps a tight leash.

I've spoken to a few different trainers, all with different training methods, about this. Some tell me to just keep chugging along. Others tell me it's a phase, give it a couple more months and he'll be a different dog. Others tell me they don't believe in a "stubborn phase" and believe that's just an excuse from dog owners because they've become lax on their training. I know we haven't become lax, we're still going after this just as hard as we were 6 months ago, it just seems like we're not accomplishing anything. New things that I've attempted to teach him recently just aren't sticking, things that he normally would have picked up on within a couple days.

All in all he's a great dog, extremely intelligent! Lots of compliments from trainers and other owners, however, there's those couple things that we really need to break, mainly the pulling.

Any ideas/opinions are greatly appreciated.

[LucyTudeOn4Feet]

Originally Posted by Pondguy

We keep failing Advanced Obedience 2 because he flat out refuses to walk on a loose leash. . . .We've gone through phases with the Gentle Leader, which I'm just not a big fan of and really hasn't made any difference when it's on...he still keeps a tight leash.

Others tell me they don't believe in a "stubborn phase" and believe that's just an excuse from dog owners because they've become lax on their training. I know we haven't become lax,
All in all he's a great dog, extremely intelligent! Lots of compliments from trainers and other owners, however, there's those couple things that we really need to break, mainly the pulling.

I'll be waiting to hear advise from others, as I can sympathize with you. You sound just like us - I have a stubborn puller also. We flunked OB because she wouldn't walk a loose leash either.
I tried something a month ago, and it seems to be working, but I can tell I'm going to have to continue to work on this more and possible forever. I bought a cheapo cotton 15 foot leash. I put it on her and when she wasn't looking, let it drag on the ground. When she began to surge ahead,(immediately) I stepped on it. She didn't know it was coming from me, and it whipped her around and it felt different to her than the pulling (pulling never seemed to be an impediment to her, no matter how close to gagging and/or passing out she might come!)
So, several of these jerks right in a row, and I'll be doggone, she stopped pulling and came alongside. But, its far from a solid habit yet. I keep a little kibble in my pocket, and reward her intermittenly now. And luckily, I happen to be in a place for a month where I can do this. So, I'm hoping I'll be able to continue when I leave here. It has made the short leash behavior a little better, but I have to start the walks out with a reminder, and so far, I haven't had a chance to work on this on a neighborhood walk. Right now its just in our parking lot, not the neighborhood where new smells abound, and her pulling is worse.
Best of Luck.

[jdog]

It's not a "lax" on training, it is a phase.They all hit the teenager phase at different times. Alot do at 5-6 months, sounds like yours just got the fever a little late. This is a testing time, but it will pass. You might have to go back to some basics to re-inforce simple commands like : sit, come, etc.
IMHO I would say "come" is the most important. If your dog isn't coming when called, go back to training on the lead. Coming when called could save his life. Be sure and train him on an empty stomach also, rewarding with treats sometimes. The same goes with sit & down. A hungry dog is a motivated dog. You're the leader. Good luck.

[kojakusa]

I agree it sounds like a phase in which you are being tested by your dog. They seem to do that from time to time, just to see if the boundaries are still there, and if they can get away with anything.

Alternatively, from your description, it sounds like you tain the dog fairly intensively. You might try backing off a bit - if you push them too hard they can shut down on you and start refusing to do anything. Have you tried giving the dog a day off for every 3-6 training days? This does not mean you let the dog have a free-for-all. You still expect and enforce obedience, but you do not do any formal training sessions for that day.

[Snowshoe]

I am getting a bit of a sympathetic chuckle at your expense. I had the same experience though my pup fooled me by not hitting that stubborn phase till past 18 months old. Same thing though. I also read, and was told, that pups who do not comply do not understand what is being asked of them. I don't agree and our current, fabulous, trainer doesn't either. We believe he knows darn well what I want him to do but is just deciding he doesn't want to.

I find something to agree with in all the replies you have received. I particularly like the vacation idea. It does sound like your training is quite intensive. At that age we took breaks of a few days to a week a couple of times. No training, just fun.

My breeder asked me just last week if my pup had hit the "magical lights on phase" now that he is 2. He has. Responses are much better and he is more interested in pleasing me now. The point is, our breeder sees many more dogs than I do, she competes in obedience, and she says it just takes longer for many, if not most (especially boys I think) to reach that place where they are ready to settle down and work for you. So here is the bad news, for me it seems to be age 2. Be patient. Keep working.