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    1. #1
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      WhoopsaDaisy's Avatar
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      Pets live longer in Europe

      Aric and I️ were looking at puppy food at Petsmart the other night and got into a long conversation with the Manager. He was pretty knowledgeable and has trained his own therapy dogs. He said something has made me think -pets live much much longer in Europe and he said it was bc the feed then a raw diet. I️ mentioned they also do not spay/neuter their pets in Europe and he agreed that was a factor.
      DH (first time I’ve used that!!) said in the car ride home honey I️ think we don’t have a choice but to feed raw if it’s going to keep our animals with us longer.
      Here’s the question(s)- do animals in Europe really live so much longer? And is it really due to diet?



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    2. #2
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      I've read somewhere else that pets do live longer in Europe. I don't know whether it's the diet (because many people at this side of the pond do feed kibble), so we'd need more information about the % of raw fed dogs in Europe vs. % of raw fed dogs in US and Canada. However, spaying and neutering is definitely more rarely done over here than in the US. Most dogs that are spayed or neutered are stray or former stray dogs that are being adopted. People choose to spay the female dogs but they usually wait for the first or second heat cycle before they do it, and most males are kept intact.

    3. #3
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      I think you'd have to look up an awful lot of research to confirm any of that. I'm on two UK based dog forums that have members from all over the world and a lot of topics cover which kibble to feed and when to neuter.

      Besides neuter and food another thing I think worth checking is vaccination protocols. On one of the forums they're really gung ho on jabbing the latest concoction going in their dogs, repeatedly, if their Vet says to do it. Never mind if someone else's Vet says no.

    4. #4
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      Seems to me that in the UK the vets are now trying to outlaw homeopathy. That came as a bit of a surprise to me.
      I am on a couple breeding / repro boards on FB, and am more inclined to believe we just don't hear as much about early deaths there as we may here. I too would love to see some solid statistics.
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    6. #5
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      According to this study, labs in the U.K. average 12.5 years. Haven't found an equivalent study for US dogs yet, but I'll keep digging. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2c3...bfadd06276.pdf
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    8. #6
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      One old timer vet that I had in NY (he had been a vet for like 65 years) said keep the dog from getting fat and he should live a long, healthy life as long as genetics are good and there's a little luck. I tend to agree based on my personal experience and lots of people I know as well as what I've read. Lots of raw fed, intact, well bred dogs have died of cancer early on. I'd focus on the weight and chemicals myself (yard chemicals, house chemicals, vaccinations, etc.) as well as getting a dog from healthy lines (nothing in life is guaranteed, but it's a leg up). Leave the dog intact if it works for you. I'm not sure what the difference is between raw and kibble unless the raw food is organic, free range, etc. -- like you went out and hunted in the woods for your meat. More power to the person who can not only find this kind of raw food, but who can also afford to feed it!

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    10. #7
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      Interesting. UK average of 12.5 might be pretty close to that in NA? I guess for the average to be 12.5 it means half the dogs are living past that (or more than half ...)

      I didn't think Rocky had much of a chance at a long life given he is a byb pure bred lab. But here we are at 13.5. He won't live to the really special 15-16 years old but still, 13 is past what is the average in the UK and I assume in NA.

      He was neutered a bit later (around 15-18 months). His weight has always been ok, not to say he was always in peak form, but he was never what I would consider "overweight" (you can always feel those ribs). Our vets always did 3 year vaccination protocol (I am always surprised to hear that so many local vets vaccinate yearly!) and we stopped vaccines at...7? I think he was due for shots at 10 and I titered and he was ok. But he eats kibble. So we are good on some fronts mentioned, less on others.

      We did HW preventative but not tick (though ticks are becoming a big issue locally so that will change for my next dog)

      ETA: oh Dryf our last family dog was fed kibble (middle to low end), neutered at 5 ish and vaccinated...gosh I am not sure but i don't think it was yearly for sure and was on Rymadyl (I think that is what it was) for like 4-5 years. He was a lab-golden mix. LIved to be 15-16!
      Last edited by Tanya; 11-12-2017 at 02:10 PM.

    11. #8
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      Hi , sorry I haven’t been introduced but as I’m from Scotland, well it is part of Europe, I thought I would contribute to this post.
      I know in some Scandinavian countries, dogs can’t be neutered/ spayed. There doesn’t seem to be the big push to vaccinate in some European countries. I say some as in the UK you would think it was mandatory to vaccinate yearly, you can’t go to kennels, training classes, groomers or use dog walkers, without proof your dog is vaccinated.
      I cant find studies done on the longtivity but I can tell you about my experience.

      I got my first labrador 27 years ago, I fed her processed food, I vaccinated every year as my Vets protocol and I wormed her every six months, she was spayed at six years so not young. She died of a vicious form of cancer aged 11.

      My next labrador, a rescue was neutered at 18 months, had a similar protocol to my first, up until he was 12 years old. I stopped vaccinating, changed his food to raw and clung on to my boy until he was just past 14 years.

      Another rescue never spayed, same as the first two died at 12 years.

      Now the two beautiful Labradors I have now are treated so differently. My old girl, she’s 12 years and has been raw fed since I took her in 7 years ago. She has arthritis which I treat using alternative treatments, still runs for the ball and is turning into the most adorable lady.
      My youngster, he will be 4 in May of next year and has had puppy vaccinations, is raw fed. I titred 2 years ago, my dogs no longer need vaccinated. I don’t treat for worms or fleas, I use a worm count. I wish to hold on to my labs for as long as possible.

      In my area all my friends vaccinate their dogs every single year. They use wormers regularly and I know of a few that treat for non existent fleas. The vets are all knowing. Antibiotics are dished out like sweeties for everything, from sickness to itchy skin. I have know two dogs die of lymphoma both dogs never got passed six.
      My friend who’s greyhound died of lymphoma has a puppy and it’s now on the same protocol of vaccinations every single year.

      My opinion is , at least in the UK, we’re on a par with the USA and Canada, apart from rabies vaccine. Processed food is pushed heavily as well as all the use of pesticides and vaccines.

      My brothers last labrador died aged 15 years and was fed cheap processed food and vaccinated yearly, yet lived to a good age.

      So Whoopsadaisy to answer your question, do dogs in Europe live longer? In my opinion no but depending on where in Europe maybe.

      So you can see where I stand on the issue of feeding, I feed appropriately, the issue of vaccinations, or over vaccinating and putting chemicals that are proven to be carcinogenic either in or on my dogs.

      I am not anti vaccine, I’m not going to rant about what each owner feeds their dogs, I believe in conventional medicine but I believe in alternative medicine. I also believe that Vets in the uk abuse antibiotics, which I find concerning as antibiotics are a wonder drug in the fight against bad bacteria but I also believe their use should be respected.

      So after this looooonnnng post, I may pop in now and then if you’ll let me and I feel I can contribute anything.

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    13. #9
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      My current veterinarian uses a 3 year vaccine protocol. Mine are fed kibble, however.

      My previous dogs, all spayed/neutered young, vaccinated yearly, and kibble fed all died very young. It’ll be interesting to see how long my current 2 live. I’m hoping for a long time!


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    14. #10
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      My three labs who are now all nine years old have been on 100% prey model raw diet since they were three years old. My 6.5 month old WPG has been on raw since about 3 months old. I am a huge advocate for raw feeding as I feel it does help them thrive, but as far as longevity I think it has more to do with genetics. "Knock on wood", I will say that people are constantly surprised to hear that any of my labs are nine years old, they always want to guess much younger based on their appearance and energy levels. I dunno how significant that really is though.

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