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  1. #1
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
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    Scary. I know More About Something I Don't Know About Than the Salespeople Do.

    All Weather tires, anybody here know lots about them? Unlike All Season tires, the AW have the snowflake on the sidewall and are rated for winter, even in Quebec, but can be left on all year without the detriment to performance of a dedicated snow tire in summer. No extra rims needed, plus I'll be ready for that mid October dump of snow. I've been driving in a snow belt, surrounded by ski resorts for over 30 years on All Seasons with no problem but these AW I think will give me just a bit of an edge in winter.

    Boy, it's sad what the salespeople are telling me. I don't think some of them are trying to snow () me into buying anything, I think some of them simply don't know what they are talking about. I can't find the size I need in the two makes I like best. The salespeople are telling me I can change the tire size and keep the 16" rim. Most of them told me I could get All Seasons in the size I need, and said AS and AW are the same thing. Well they are not the same thing, I know that. But I'm not sure about the tire size change so now I don't know who to believe. If they are wrong on one thing they can be wrong on another.

    Ok, rant over. But if anyone knows about the size change please chime in.

    Oh, maybe it would help if I gave the sizes. I need 225 75R 16. But I've been told I can put 235 70 or 245 70 on the same rims.

  2. #2
    Senior Dog doubledip1's Avatar
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    You can change the tire sizes a little bit... you definitely can if increasing rim diameter, it's called plus/minus sizing. I have a Subaru with all seasons (Continental DWS) and dedicated snow tires (Bridgestone Blizzaks). I run a narrower snow tire since it helps plow through snow a little better. I'm not sure how to get the numbers, but you want to stay under 3%. Somebody else will know what they're talking about much more than me.
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  3. #3
    House Broken Paws n Jaws's Avatar
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    Yes, you can upsize the size of the tire and keep the same rim. Without changing the overall diameter of the tire/wheel, you will not have to adjust the speedometer. Though keep in mind that increasing the width of a tire may have adverse impact on performance in snow.

    Here's a little graphic too...

    https://info.kaltire.com/sites/kaltir...-graphic_0.pdf

  4. #4
    Senior Dog Jeff's Avatar
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    My advice, ask them to order the tires, you got time.

    You are correct, and incorrect on the all season and all weather. Ok, the All season, the one without the mountain and snowflake with the M+S or M/S on them, harder rubber, rated for summer mud and rain, light snow. The Mountain symbol with the snowflake, Winter tires. This is a softer rubber made for deep snow. However, you do not want to leave them on year round, hot summers can destroy these a lot quicker. Basically the wear costs you more in the number of tires you go through than have 2 complete sets. Look at it this way, you can wear tennis shoes year round, but its better to wear light sneakers in the summer and boots in the winter.

    The tire size changes, this can be done. But it takes a lot of math to do it right. But no matter what you do it is going to mess with your odometer and speedometer. They will be off.

    225 75R 16

    Multiply the width by the aspect ratio expressed as a decimal. (225 x 0.75 = 168.75)
    Convert the aspect height to inches. (168.75 / 25.4 = 6.64)
    Multiply the aspect height by 2. (6.64 x 2 = 13.28)
    Add the inside diameter of the tire. (16 + 13.28 = 29.28)


    Rinse and repeat for the size of the new tires.

    235 70 16

    Multiply the width by the aspect ratio expressed as a decimal. (235 x 0.70 = 164.5)
    Convert the aspect height to inches. (164.5 / 25.4 = 6.48)
    Multiply the aspect height by 2. (6.48 x 2 = 12.96)
    Add the inside diameter of the tire. (16 + 12.96 = 28.96)

    Ok this tells you the difference is 1.1% rounded. So
    When your speedometer reads 100 kph your actually going 98.9 yes I converted to KPH.


    245 70 16

    Multiply the width by the aspect ratio expressed as a decimal. (245 x 0.70 = 171.5)
    Convert the aspect height to inches. (171.5 / 25.4 = 6.75)
    Multiply the aspect height by 2. (6.75 x 2 = 13.5)
    Add the inside diameter of the tire. (16 + 13.5 = 29.5)

    Ok this tells you the difference is 0.7% rounded. So When your speedometer reads 100 kph your actually going 100.7

    So the wider tire is better but you might have issues rubbing under the fenders. My advice still stands, you have time before the snow flies, have them order them.


    Now I wait for you to ask me more questions about weed, less math involved
    Last edited by Jeff; 07-31-2014 at 04:12 PM.

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  6. #5
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
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    No, apparently they are not even made in the size I need. I can go get the 235 70s at one place, where they are on sale right now, and the 245 70s at another place. The Hankook isn't made in any of the those sizes or the 225 75, though the guy at that place was really dipsy, summer student I think.

    Thanks for the math, that's what I got too. I found sites saying within 3% was ok but I wasn't sure if they meant metric or imperial since a Canadian site used the same 3%.

    And Jeff, All Weathers are not the same as All Seasons. All Weathers are rated for snow, with the snowflake in the mountain symbol, but you can run them all year. Their rubber does not soften in summer as a dedicated snow tire rubber will do. You can see the difference between All Weather, All Season and Winter tire in the chart at the link Paws and Jaws provided. Funny the Kaltire Canadian link of the same thing looks a bit different.

    I didn't say the tires. The Nokian WR3 or the Hankook Optimo 4S.

    We have been running Cooper All Season Discovery Mud & Snow ATR and been really pleased with them but that tire is no longer made. Seemed like a good time for a switch, but maybe not. Since the All Weathers would be the tire on all year and I might have to go wider in the tread (well I like the 245 option best as it's less of a difference) then maybe sticking with some kind of All Season in the optimum size would be best. I drive a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Laredo, by the way, and never put it into 4 low once last very snowy winter.

    ETA: Here's a bit more on All Weather tires:

    Are all-weather tires a good compromise? - The Globe and Mail

  7. #6
    Senior Dog Jeff's Avatar
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    Interesting, when you were talking about the snowflake I was assuming winter ones, never seen the all weather ones. Interesting tread design.

    I am not sure about Canada, but can you do a different brand? Someone has to make them, and if they came on your car they have to be a pretty standard tire. If you went with one I would go with the 235 70's they are going to be narrower. Better in the snow, not as good as what you got now because they are wider.

  8. #7
    Puppy
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    Tirerack and discount tire are sources of information. It may not be worth shipping since you folks have VAT up there. Tirerack also has a calculator that will tell you plus one or minus one sizes that will fit. Also depending on the vehicle, it might complain about tire changes even if you keep within the rules. GM vehicles are known to complain and on most tech bulletins, tire size is the first thing they check when a customer complains of performance issues.

    I wont tell you some of the crap I hear from the big name stores when I go to change a tire. I don't even allow them to take the rims off the truck or the car and do it myself at home first. It helps to preserve my sanity and hopefully within the next year or three, I'll have my own tire changer and balancer. That way I don't have to deal with the brilliant people that make up stories.

  9. #8
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
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    There are a few other brands I can check out but Nokian and Hankook got good reviews.

    LOL, I have my own tire changer but he got tired of doing it. Got tired of doing messy oil changes too, with the disposal problems. But he did just put new shocks on for me.

  10. #9
    Senior Dog Bamps's Avatar
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    The 245/70 r16 will be aprox the same diameter as the 225/75 R16 but wider but about an inch.

  11. #10
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
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    Another consideration is that 225, 235 and 245 are side wall width but not tread width. Tread width will be a little less but I suppose proportionate within a brand. Between different brands there's no way to tell.

 



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