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  1. #21
    Senior Dog JackK's Avatar
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    With non-stop media bombarding these stories around the clock they have sensationalized violence. These people are looking for attention and we give them more than they deserve. Norway has a better approach in my book. They do not allow the likeness nor name of the assailant to be published. That way there is no fame or glory.

    Not to sound like a gun fanatic but I think one trained, armed civilian could lessen the death toll in these shootings. We just had an issue locally where a guy crashed his car and then entered a home and fatally stabbed one woman and injured a second. He then stole their car and drove to a mall and killed one more before being taken out by an off duty sheriff (ie trained civilian with a gun). It would have been much worse had it continued. This guy had been brought to a mental health facility the night before and released as "OK"

    Mental health and the lack of treatment options is a much bigger issue. The number of facilities to deal with the mentally ill are dwindling and the prison system isn't dealing with them well.

  2. #22
    Senior Dog shellbell's Avatar
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    Regardless of being for or against more gun control (I am torn on that one), at this point aren't there so many guns out there that to all of a sudden enact a law trying to limit their sale be pointless? I am just thinking that if tomorrow it was signed into federal law that buying a gun was going to be drastically more difficult to do/impossible, what sort of impact would that even have? There are already so many guns out there and available, that the bad guys who want to commit crimes won't have much problem getting their hands on them. Chances are that many of them don't do so legally today anyways. And if a radical person wants to commit a mass shooting, and it was illegal for them to purchase a gun, I think they would look at alternate methods of obtaining one and still be able to do so.

    I honestly don't know what the answer is, like someone else said I feel like this has just become our new reality. One of the many reasons my husband and I decided we don't want to have kids, the world is too f'ed up.

  3. #23
    Senior Dog BaconsMom's Avatar
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    I want to start this with the fact that I don't want to fight, I simply want to put info out there as a gun owner and hunter. Information is power.

    Just to put this out there:

    1. AR-15's are mainly for hunting use. It is a semi-automatic weapon that is 1 shot per trigger pull. AR-15's are just styled to look more tactical, it is no different than any other semi-auto hunting rife.

    2. Semi-autos are out there in many forms, shotguns, handguns, rifles. All of which are 1 shot per trigger pull. NONE of these are assault rifles.

    3. Assault rifles are fully automatic weapons, pulling the trigger once releases a burst of shots. These are ILLEGAL TO OWN and are for military use only.

    4. If you are having issues with semi-autos for the speed of shooting, a well experienced shooter can shoot just as quickly with a pump, lever action, or bolt action gun as with a semi auto. From personal experience I have 2 shotguns, 1 pump and 1 semi-auto. I feel I am just as quick with the pump as I am with the semi-auto.

    5. having purchased weapons, it is not as easy as you think, especially to get handguns. You need a permit to purchase, which requires a trip to the local Law enforcement office to fill out an application. Then a background check. Then there is a waiting period before you can even buy the gun.

    I really think there is a stigma with AR's. They look scary but they are the same as any semi auto hunting rifle. It is not a high powered round nor is it meant for big game. It is really middle of the road for rifle rounds. It is simply styled for a tactical look. I know I may get arguments from this, but I like to compare gun control with the war on drugs. Just because drugs are illegal does that mean people don't buy them? If guns were illegal people would still find a way to buy them-and most of them would not be a responsible gun owner such as myself. My firearms are stored in a secure location, used for their intended purpose (hunting, target practice, and self defense) and were obtained through the proper channels. The only things that are in danger from my guns are the animals I hunt, the criminal who wants to enter my house to harm my family, and the paper I shoot on the range.

    In short, it is not guns that are the problem, it is the people who own the guns. Those who are responsible should not be punished for the actions of a few lunatics.

    Again. I am saying this as an opinion, and hoping not to offend anyone. If it is offensive, I will take it down.
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  5. #24
    Senior Dog POPTOP's Avatar
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    IMO, there is a gross lack of family values and manners. I was taught Yes Mame, Yes Sir, Please, Thank You. Rarely do I see a child do this without the prompting of a parent. What about holding open a door when someone is exiting a door, either male or female? What about, "Oh, you go first"? It seems to be a whole "me" mentality and "I deserve it". What about staying quiet in church or in a restaurant? What about them learning respect for others? What happened to a child working for what they want? I'm not including normal household chores. They live in the house, are taken care of and fed, they should have daily chores. I'm talking about them taking on a special project, helping extra. And, if this is done, a weekly allowance should be given. They learn manners, family values and budgeting. Yes, we want out children to have it easier than we did, but at what cost?

    Guns, I've had my fair share and have done my share of shooting. There does seem to have been a loop hole in the system that this man could even purchase one.

    I lived in Japan for several years and the only people who had guns were the police. OK, there was the small minority of criminals who did too. The police demanded ultimate respect and they got it no questions asked. Once saw a policeman stop a truck in the middle of the road. We waited for his to complete his job, that's what was expected. Whatever the problem, I think speeding, the cop took the truck keys, moved to truck to the side of the road, opened the gas cap, dropped the keys in and drove off. It was a company truck and bet that man lost his job.
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  7. #25
    Senior Dog Doreen Davis's Avatar
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    Perhaps we could start with if we have you on a do not fly list that we don't sell you a gun.

    I know it wouldn't have stopped this guy (who may have been closeted himself which adds another layer to this) but it just seems to be common sense that we could all agree on.

    My husband is a retired Marine officer and told me how when you returned to the base you emptied your guns and locked them up so you didn't have an incident. Obviously there were those on patrol et al but I listen to some of our law enforcement folks and it just seems we could find some common ground here. Doing nothing isn't working.

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  9. #26
    Senior Dog smartrock's Avatar
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    Misconceptions?

    It doesn't make me feel better that the rifle used cannot fire 700 rounds per minute. Is 100 rounds per minute better? Thirty rounds? What is an acceptable number of potential human deaths in one minute? The Orlando shooter was in there for a couple hours and if he "only" killed one person per minute, could still have killed more than he did. And there was an armed, trained, "good guy" there who still was not able to prevent the number of fatalities that occurred.

    I don't care that an "ArmaLite Rifle"-15 is not a high-powered rifle. I'm not talking about being able to bring down a rhino. I'm talking about being able to bring down you or me, a classroom of 4 year olds, a group of people who have come to watch the fireworks on July 4th, moviegoers, churchgoers, carnival goers, graduation attendees, anywhere a large group of people are gathered. The chaos would make identifying and bringing down the perpetrator before several people die a challenge. I don't want someone carrying an AR-15 style weapon, or any other gun, walking into my child's school, family reunion, dog show, wherever. Can a person carrying an AR-15 type rifle or other semi-automatic weapon kill a classroom full of children in under one minute? What about only half the class, is that better? Do they have to go into the school to accomplish this? Nope- recess.

    Mental illness, zealotry, paranoia, sociopathy- those things aren't always easy to identify, treat, or anticipate. But making it more difficult for people to get their hands on guns to begin with is something that could make a difference, whether the weapon can kill "only" one person at a time, as in most Baltimore and Chicago shootings, or more than that.

    You all who hunt ducks, quail, pheasant, deer, turkeys, go do your thing, I'm not talking about you.

  10. #27
    Senior Dog Abulafia's Avatar
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    On the "a few lunatics" point: anyone care to guess how many mass shootings, with or without casualties, we've had this year? How many since Orlando?

    I find it odd that people only defend guns when they have been used to kill people. I find it odd that a discussion of "how can we stop this" is greeted with "there's absolutely no way" and then explanations of how guns work, as if those of us who want fewer gun deaths don't understand guns.

    Always such an odd discussion.

    Also, I'm a professor on a huge U.S. campus. And to those who think I should be trained and armed, I have a few words, and they are not ones I am going to write here.
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  11. #28
    Senior Dog arentspowell's Avatar
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    My point is they are no different than other guns...
    Unless you're advocating for the prohibition of ALL guns?

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  13. #29
    Senior Dog BaconsMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arentspowell View Post
    my point is they are no different than other guns...
    Unless you're advocating for the prohibition of all guns?
    this!
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  14. #30
    Senior Dog JackK's Avatar
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    The fact that this individual was able to fire upon a crowd for many minutes without a response is a tragedy. But he didn't have to use an AR-15 to accomplish this. The AR-15 has been the political target because it's easy. Look at it! It looks menacing.

    The sad reality is that if one is pretty handy with a 3-D printer and a lathe, making your own plastic weapon is not out of the realm of possibility.

    I personally have had the misfortune of confronting a guy attempting to enter my home. Out walking my then 14 year old Lab, I arrived at the entrance to my driveway to hear the storm door slam closed. The individual jumped off my stairs and ran at me. Holding nothing but a very high powered Streamlight flashlight. I ordered him to HALT! Thankfully I had a blue tooth earpiece in and was able to dial 911 while this guy thought I was a cop. I kept questioning him while he kept telling me to turn off the light that he couldn't see. The police dispatcher was able to hear my conversation and send help on the fly. She kept telling me to keep calm and keep him talking and that she could hear what he was saying and was relaying the information to the responding officers. The cruiser arrived very fast - under 5 minutes. Once this guy was cuffed and in the cruiser, I completely fell apart and was shaking from head to toe. It felt like an eternity and I realized had this guy wanted to hurt me, there was nothing stopping him.

    Prior to this experience, I had never had the desire nor felt the need to own a weapon. That changed in an instant. I took a couple of safety classes and made sure that I could protect my home and loved ones. I practice at the range often and pray I am never in the situation to need one but ready if I do.

    To this day I do not know what came over my chocolate lab during this episode. She laid down directly beside me, never moved a muscle and growled like a GSD! She was a great companion dog but was old and had never shown any aggression. I'm guessing that she just knew it was time to lay still and play the part. I lost her a few months later to a stroke.

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