• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Drunk
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Tired
  • Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
    Results 21 to 30 of 33

    Thread: Tough Question

    1. #21
      Senior Dog
      Happy
       
      janedoe's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      New England
      Posts
      3,918
      Thanked: 1390
      Ever since we became an all senior home, it's pretty much a free for all. There are rules as in any household (don't tackle Fran, Zo) but I really need them to let me know what they need instead of telling them what to do. So I have zero expectations that Nikki will join us upstairs since she has periodic back issues. Fran needs to be where she's most comfortable. And no one has to eat unless they feel like it because not eating is such a serious indicator of physical issues. You want to be outside? Great. If not, no problem. Maybe it's too cold or too hot or the leaf mold is bugging your paws. Everyone is kind of responsible for figuring out what they need.

    2. #22
      Best Friend Retriever
      Bernie's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2016
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      517
      Thanked: 103
      Quote Originally Posted by barry581 View Post
      Labs are working dogs and as such they need a job. If you don't give them one, they will find one, and it generally won't be pretty.

      Brooks is the first Lab I got for competitive dog sports, and I started training him for this the day I brought him home. We've been doing classes since he was about 15 weeks old, and doing 3-4 training sessions every day. I can honestly say he has the strongest bond with me than any dog I've had but my first girl Ella. I do truly believe that by training you dog a bind is created that is something special. Even at his young age, I can tell Brooks wants to please me, and will work very hard for my approval. I get a lot of positive comments on this from people I train with.
      Barry, I've read many of your posts and respect what you're doing, but i hope you're not saying that for one to have a dog as a well behaved pet, you have to spend $1000+ for training and devote every waking moment of your life to accomplish it.
      Also, although I posted a statement about circus animals as a bit of sarcasm, I believe those elephants work very hard for approval too.

    3. #23
      Best Friend Retriever
      Bernie's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2016
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      517
      Thanked: 103
      Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post

      So, you have two choices. You can teach your dog that what you have to offer is the best and only option (control environment + rewarding with something that he enjoys + building the habit) or you can teach your dog that by choosing what you want him to choose, he can avoid punishment (probably an e-collar, in this case). What you are dealing with is typical of any dog, any breed, who has been given too much freedom without training or maturity. This is nothing unusual. Would every dog do this? No. Would most dogs? Probably. Your dog sounds fairly independent and it sounds like building a better relationship with your dog might help.
      Go back to #8.
      Guess I was just lucky with the previous four, huh.

    4. #24
      Real Retriever
      Java's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2015
      Location
      Canada
      Posts
      407
      Thanked: 227
      Quote Originally Posted by Meeps83 View Post
      Interesting thought Bernie.

      With Maverick, he was about the easiest and most trainable dog ever. He knows regular commands but also other ones like toy names, mom and dad, give me a kiss, and a bunch of tricks.

      You mentioned being able to let dogs off leash and have them reliably check in with you. I wonder if they were more bonded to you. I walk Maverick off leash thru a nature preserve with a walking path and numerous ponds. He would never get more than 100 yards from me without stopping to check in. I didn't train this, but he knows that he can't go far. Like a 6th sense. Maybe some dogs are entitled. Maybe some are dumber. Or maybe, as owners, some of us are lazy and unrealistic with expectations. This is not accusative or directed at anyone. We all have unrealistic goals at times and do the same with dogs.

      I do think the recommendation for training comes because most board members want every lab to be a wonderful ambassador for the breed. And we want everyone to love labs. Many problems can be worked out with training so I think that just becomes a default recommendation.
      I guess it depends on what you mean by bonding. Boomer's uber-Velcro to me. Even if he's getting belly rubs from someone else, he'll jump up to follow me if I get up to move. It's always been that way. I thought this would translate to a great recall but it hasn't so far. It's improved with training and in context of fetch, perfect thus far. I don't trust his recall on hikes though.

      Some things he does things for me because of training. Anything to do with toys, heading out, fetch or attention, he does because he wants to. Find or pick up the toy, roll over for a belly rub, that sort of thing.

      Three dogs, I'm still waiting to find one with an inclination to stick close. Banjo (beagle) - independent hound who was easily trained (weave through my legs, go back around the tree, touch the mark, double high-five etc.) had trained recall but a new scent was irresistible. Chloe (shepherd X - if I had her as a younger dog, I've no doubt she would've been my off-leash, energetic but chilled dog).

      I'm sure if I put more time & effort into training, Boomer would improve even more but he came with a life-long habit of chase-me so who knows. He's been the most challenging to train of all my dogs - mostly because he's the most enthusiastic.

    5. #25
      Senior Dog
      Jeff's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Grand Rapids, MI
      Posts
      1,557
      Thanked: 1875
      Quote Originally Posted by Bernie View Post
      The next time we're out in the yard at 11:15 p.m., 30' ft. apart and he decides to take off running 1/2 mile down the dirt road, you walk after him with a flashlight, he'll be at the neighbors farm, up the drive another 300', you'll find him waking up his dogs that are barking their brains out right now, surely my neighbor doesn't mind someone walking around his place with a flashlight, he's a nice guy, after you hoof it the 1/2 mile back with dog in tow, you and I can sit down and discuss the need for "mental stimulation".
      That behavior is totally on you. Training a good recall doesn't take much at all. Spent maybe an hour training it so he knew what it entailed. Then reinforced it few times a day, which take 5 minutes at the most for the next few weeks. Then let it taper off. However I still use it once or twice a week when we are out walking or doing things. Sometimes for no reason at all just to reinforce it. Positive training goes a long way to reinforce this. Training him not to leave the yard, I spent 15 minutes, 3 times a day for 5 weeks. He will not leave the yard now, nor ever, I train him this at 7 months he is now 5 and a half and has never left the yard. You need to teach them what behavior is acceptable. However, you need to teach them before they teach themselves that there is a reward for bad behavior. Now he knows that there is a reward for leaving the yard and I guessing more than likely when you do go get him your pissed off. So he thinks your just going to yell at him when you see him after back from his romp. So there is no reward in coming back. So now in order to get the behavior corrected it will take longer. It can be done, but it will take longer.

      Training is much the same as doing maintenance on the house. Replacing the roof before it leaks costs less and is less of a hassle. However it you wait until it leaks then it is going to cost you more and there will be other problems that need to be identified and fixed. This is why training extremely early is important. It goes with the old saying. Start training the puppy immediately for the dog you want to have. By the time they become a dog and no longer a puppy they will be well behaved.

      Leaving the yard and running off down the road as others have said is because he knows it is more rewarding to do this than to stay home.


      Quote Originally Posted by Bernie View Post
      Go back to #8.
      Guess I was just lucky with the previous four, huh.
      And maybe there was something you did different you haven't realized. Was life different at the house? Kids, family, house fuller and more stimulating? Did you maybe not work as much and had more time. Were the other dogs rescues where they did receive this sort of training before you got them. There can be a lot of reasons. However, honestly the hardest part in training dogs is getting the owner to see where they are going wrong. This is from simple things like recall, to advanced things like agility. Most of the time a dog messes up on the agility course is because the person messed up.

    6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jeff For This Useful Post:

      Annette47 (02-15-2017), windycanyon (02-15-2017)

    7. #26
      Senior Dog
      Labradorks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2014
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      3,356
      Thanked: 1891
      Quote Originally Posted by Bernie View Post
      Go back to #8.
      Guess I was just lucky with the previous four, huh.
      It depends on who you ask, I guess...What one person values or not in a dog is not what the next person values or not in a dog. You just have to train the dog you have. Sometimes dogs present unique challenges. I am learning to enjoy figuring out what works best for each dog and how I can help them understand what I want and be successful, in every day life as well as in competition. One of the reasons I do not use punishment is because I truly believe that my dogs want to please me and if they knew what I wanted, they'd do it. If they don't know what I want, that is on me. I'm not saying you should do this or study my methods, just that taking some responsibility for the dog's behavior and looking internally has been super helpful for me, and others, in problem solving. And, while there is frustration involved at times, I know that frustration should be with myself, not the dog. Sometimes the things we ask of our dogs are counter-intuative, like don't touch me with your teeth, don't bark, don't take off to play with other dogs, don't run to play with those kids, don't chase that deer, don't eat that poop, don't roll in that dead animal, don't jump that fence, don't dig in the yard, don't pee on that, etc. We have a lot of rules! It can be hard for a dog to turn off their natural, ingrained behaviors and give us what we want when we want it. Your dog is not purposefully trying to make you mad. He has no skin in the game other than 1+1=2 at the moment. As a human with developed emotions, it is natural to think that the dog is doing something to get your goat, so you'll naturally respond with emotion. It certainly takes practice to change your way of thinking.

    8. #27
      Real Retriever
      silverfz's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2016
      Location
      MASS
      Posts
      412
      Thanked: 121
      This is an interesting thread, i was watching a researcher goes around conducting testing and giving dogs to choose . He always gives multiple choices . Also he works with services dogs to simulate a multiple choice scenario and see if the dogs performances as expected and full full its duty. The program ends with him theorizing that dogs are more in tune the intelligence of an toddler/Infant mental capacity then a wolf they originate from. He using the retrievers for his experiments .

    9. #28
      House Broken
      Pogie's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 2016
      Location
      Illinois
      Posts
      225
      Thanked: 117
      I don't think they "want" to please as much as we train them to please us. They may love us and I do believe they do, but that being said, no I really don't think they actually want to please us. We reward them for pleasing us, so we are actually training them to please us.

      Even when they learn something where we may think they did it because they knew it would make us happy, we have probably trained them with out knowing we did.

      I know they bond with us but they are pack animals so they want or maybe need to bond with the pack. Even then in a pack they don't do things to please other animals they just do what they need to or the alpha will teach them what is acceptable. We are the alphas. We teach them what is ok and what isn't.

      Hope that makes sense lol.
      Just my opinion

    10. #29
      Senior Dog
      Labradorks's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2014
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      3,356
      Thanked: 1891
      Quote Originally Posted by Pogie View Post
      I don't think they "want" to please as much as we train them to please us. They may love us and I do believe they do, but that being said, no I really don't think they actually want to please us. We reward them for pleasing us, so we are actually training them to please us.

      Even when they learn something where we may think they did it because they knew it would make us happy, we have probably trained them with out knowing we did.

      I know they bond with us but they are pack animals so they want or maybe need to bond with the pack. Even then in a pack they don't do things to please other animals they just do what they need to or the alpha will teach them what is acceptable. We are the alphas. We teach them what is ok and what isn't.

      Hope that makes sense lol.
      Just my opinion
      Dogs do want to please, it's called biddability. But, yes, we do have to mold that behavior because while some dogs are born wanting to please, it's the how to please part that they don't have a handle on. The alpha/dominance theory has been bunked over and over. We can be leaders and show them the rules, sure, but we're not fighting our dogs to gain the alpha status like a pack of wolves. Dogs are way more evolved (and hopefully so are humans).

    11. #30
      Senior Dog
      Jeff's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2014
      Location
      Grand Rapids, MI
      Posts
      1,557
      Thanked: 1875
      Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post
      (and hopefully so are humans).
      Some days I wonder.

    12. The Following User Says Thank You to Jeff For This Useful Post:

      SunDance (02-17-2017)

    Quick Reply Quick Reply

     



    Not a Member of the Labrador Retriever Chat Forums Yet?
    Register for Free and Share Your Labrador Retriever Photos

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •