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  1. #21
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    I was thinking about doing professional training with Bruce a few months back. I found a local trainer who charged $500 per month, for 5-6 months for basic gundog training. I met with him, and really liked him, and how he ran his program. With that being said, I don't hunt, and I didn't want Bruce to be gone for 5 months.

    I am in contact with Bruce's breeders, and his sires breeders, and both recommended no formal gundog training until he's 1 year old. I know that sounds very late to a lot of trainers, but these people work their dogs, and know their lines, so I'm going with their recommendations. I've got Tom Dokkens book, and a couple others and will do my best to gundog train Bruce. Do I think a professional could do better? Absolutely! Will Bruce and I bond and have a great time training??? Absolutely!!!

    I think it all comes down to what your goals are for the dog, and how comfortable you are in training the dog yourself. Either way I hope you get what you are looking for!

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    ChoppersDad (01-23-2015)

  3. #22
    Senior Dog ChoppersDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRISHWISTLER View Post
    You really need to identify just what it is you expect in a "bird dog"? I do not state the following to judge nor offend you, but rather to help you and your retriever. What type(s) of birds are you looking to hunt, upland, waterfowl, or both? Are you interested in potentially running your dog in Hunt Tests or Field Trials? Are you looking to get the most performance out of your dog as his / her potential possessed? If your answer to any of the above is yes, and even more so if it is yes to more than one question, you should get your dog into the care of a reputable trainer. Your lack of base skill levels will make training more of a mystery than a mission. You need to design and initiate a clearly defined training plan based on what your expectations and desires are for your retriever, prior to stepping onto the training grounds.

    Additionally, do an assessment of what type of training resources you have access to. One needs basic equipment in alignment with the type of training program they are embarking on, bumpers, Dokken type training birds, force fetch equipment, e- collar (if you plan to collar condition), equipment for conditioning the dog to gunfire, check cords, wingers, electronic bird releases, boats and blinds (for related boat and blind work training, and lots of training birds. Access to a number of training venues that include water and land while providing safe working conditions for the dog, those places allowing for the safe discharge of shotguns and the shooting of live birds. Etc., etc.

    You should have a recognized program to follow closely while in the training process, and there are a number of them out there. Evan Graham, Mike Lardy, Danny Farmer, and Bill Hillman are some of the best, but you must be willing to implement their methodologies without deviating from them based on others wanting to sway you with their own philosophical bend.

    Clubs are good places to find some very well versed trainers, but they also have a number of self appointed "pseudo-experts" willing to share their misinformation with anyone willing to listen. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. ASK QUESTIONS, LOTS OF QUESTIONS. INTERVIEW AND VISIT MULTIPLE TRAINERS AND SEE IF THEY WILL LET YOU WATCH THEM DO SOME TRAINING. If your dog will be borded during training (the most likely arrangement), make sure you are comfortable with the facilities and level of care given the animals at a training facility. Your retriever being away from you for a few months will not damage the bond between you. Most often such seperation helps in bolding up and maturation of your retriever. As well, a key component addressed by any competent trainer will be him or her working with the client (you) and your dog together, teaching you the correct skills to handle the dog, and to maintain the training that is achieved.

    Be CAUTIOUS from whom you take advice. I would not seek advice on how to fly an airplane from a ballet dancer, unless the dancer was also an expert flight instructor. To seek advice on how to train field performance dogs for hunting from folks that have never hunted and have not worked with and trained high level field dogs will be a pathway to less than satisfactory results. JMHO based on 35 years of living and working / hunting with retrievers, and 46 years of both upland bird and waterfowl hunting experience.

    Irishwhistler
    "What type(s) of birds are you looking to hunt, upland, waterfowl, or both?"

    Both! I've done quail hunting in Texas many times. I did a couple of seasons in Colorado hunting pheasants and chukars with bird dogs. They were labs and I just love to watch the dogs work. I live in Oregon now. I can hunt chukars, pheasants and quail on private ranches, but it comes with a high tariff. Duck hunting at Sauvie Island is next on the agenda and it is very affordable.

    Chopper loves the water and he is constantly chasing birds. He stops what he is doing and starts tracking the honking Canadian geese across the sky as they fly overhead in V formation. There are ponds along the trails that I take him on during his walks where he is constantly wanting to sneak up on the ducks. He pretty much gets soaking wet on everyone of our walks.

    He loves the cold weather and the water, but I keep him on a leash to control him around deep water. I'm worried that he might get stuck in the mud. About a month ago, two boys were screwing around in the mud and one of them got stuck. The other could not free him so he went for help. He was stuck in the mud for 5 hours before the fire department freed his legs with fire hoses.

    On the flip side, I think he would love the formal training, but at the same time he is my baby and 1st he is my pet. Bird dogging is definitely second, but I think we would both love hunting together. LOL... I'm so confused right now about what to do.

    "Are you interested in potentially running your dog in Hunt Tests or Field Trials? Are you looking to get the most performance out of your dog as his / her potential possessed? If your answer to any of the above is yes, and even more so if it is yes to more than one question, you should get your dog into the care of a reputable trainer." Yes to all of the above.

    "Access to a number of training venues that include water and land while providing safe working conditions for the dog, those places allowing for the safe discharge of shotguns and the shooting of live birds. Etc., etc." Sauvie Island.

  4. #23
    Senior Dog IRISHWISTLER's Avatar
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    Choppersdad,
    Given the limited facts I have to work with, your stated objectives for your retriever, your general resources and limited experience, it is my conclusion that both your retriever and yourself would benefit greatly in connecting with a competent pro trainer. You will learn new skills on both reading and handling your dog, the pup will find new confidence in further development of skills that will move both of you closer in eventually spending lots of quality time afield in the pursuit of birds. You will learn that to maintain a highly trained dog at those upper levels requires ongoing interaction and commitment on your part further cementing the bond between you as a TEAM.

    You have decisions to make that only you can make. Good luck with the process.

    Irishwhistler
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    Joanie Madden, Mary Bergin, Adrea Coor, and Nuala Kennedy, each an Irish whistle goddess in her own right.

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    barry581 (01-23-2015)

  6. #24
    Senior Dog ChoppersDad's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response Irishwhistler! It's a tough decision. Enough of the drama. I'm going to think hard about it one more day, make a final decision and go with it. Thanks for everyone's input. It was all very valuable to me.

    PS I'm going to call the trainer this morning and see if I can set up an appointment to meet him and visit the training facility (maybe watch one of his training sessions). Going to order one or more of the videos you guys suggested and joining a local dog club today. I'll watch the videos and see how difficult it will be to accomplish my goals.
    Last edited by ChoppersDad; 01-23-2015 at 09:59 AM.

  7. #25
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    Sorry to add one more thing to the equation but you need to consider the amount of time you have to devote to training right now. What other commitments do you have with family and pastimes (boating, golf other sports). I am retired so have ample time to work with the dogs and over the last 25 years have collected every piece of training equipment that you would ever need as well as the DVD's and books. I still send my dogs to the pro for what I call foundation training. I look at it like building a house, if you don't have a strong foundation then the whole thing can collapse at any time. There will be days in training that you will hit a wall and it is great to have that pro to fall back on to help get over these hurdles. Dogs are like children in their learning patterns. They will hit plateaux and you need to know when to back off, when to take a different tack and when the dog has not got the basic tools (learning ) to build on the skills. The pro is there to aid you with all of these problems. You have identified the aspirations you have for your dog. You have experienced the type of hunting you want to do. Now you only have to choose the path to get you there. As to bonding, if the bond is there to begin with no amount of time with the pro will break it.

  8. #26
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    I PMed you with some local info Choppersdad.

  9. #27
    Senior Dog ChoppersDad's Avatar
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    Thanks much Anna Scott. I work a full time job, but my weekends and evenings are open to do whatever I like. Chopper has a private puppy sitter that comes to my house to take care of him while I work. He used to get three visits a day, but now he is down to just two visits a day. I trust my puppy sitter very much. They love each other also. I'll make the time to do the training. I agree with you that dogs need a strong foundation to build upon that's why I think professional training is what Chopper needs. I believe Chopper and I have a very strong bond already. I'm not too worried about the bonding issue. His safety and happiness is my main concern. I have contacted the trainer and made an appointment to come see him tomorrow. He has agreed to let me watch one of his normal training sessions tomorrow (nothing staged). If I am comfortable with him, his training facility and his training sessions, I will leave a $200 deposit to hold the training slot for April.

    I'll order the videos and join the local dog club today. I can watch the videos and begin some preliminary training until April. If the dog training is going well and I change my mind, I can always back out and eat the $200.

  10. #28
    Senior Dog ChoppersDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labradorks View Post
    I PMed you with some local info Choppersdad.
    Thank you very much Labradorks! I can use all of the help you guys throw my way. I'll take a look at all of it and get back with you. By the way, if you don't mind me asking where do you live?

  11. #29
    Senior Dog ChoppersDad's Avatar
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    Labradorks,

    Did you receive my response to your private message? I wrote the same response twice. It does not appear as though my responses were successfully sent.

  12. #30
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppersDad View Post
    Labradorks,

    Did you receive my response to your private message? I wrote the same response twice. It does not appear as though my responses were successfully sent.
    Got them!

 



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