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  1. #1
    House Broken happy_blackbird's Avatar
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    Ellie Is Suddenly Giving Me The Puppy Finger. All The Time.

    I need a little lab "been there, done that" support today, as I seem to be a little off kilter with The Belly Monster. I know this is the beginning of Puppy Adolescence. I know that this stage will eventually pass. I've given advice about being patient and riding out this phase in a puppy's development. But I had no idea that Ellie had the ability to push ALL my buttons at once and so stretch thin my patience and calm. I feel so frustrated today by her behavior, I want to cry (who am I kidding, I just finished bawling out in the yard) (Ellie thought it was hysterical). I think I need reassurance from everyone out there that you, too, have gone through this because right now I think this puppy is broken beyond repair and, honestly, I hate her adorable yellow guts.

    Ellie is a week off from 7 months old and has been coming along nicely in many aspects of her training. Inside the house, she knows all her commands and we reinforce them daily (I work from home/am semi retired so she's with me all the time). She's an intensely social little girl and has excellent play/doggie social skills. She's been through two series of puppy classes (we're waiting for the next series to begin in April) and attended puppy socials. We walk hard for 60+ minutes, on and off leash, in the morning, train, nap, play, leash walk for 60+ minutes in the evening, and if we're lucky, get in a doggie friend romp daily, too. I know this is the only way to manage her energy (Ellie is a more anxious, antsy girl than our previous lab). She has suffered from intense barrier frustration/separation anxiety since the day we brought her home at 8 weeks old (many of you here helped me get her over the crate training hump, which took more than two long months to accomplish) and just last week the local doggie day care, whom we only use on the rare times I am out of the house for more than three hours, asked us not to return, as they did not have the ability to manage her non-stop barking in their kennel (though she's great when she can just be out and about with the other dogs).


    In the last couple of weeks, Ellie has begun to stop responding to commands out and about in the world. Sometimes I simply can not get her attention, for example when she is hard on a scent. But mostly, she looks at me, blinks a few times, and then completely disregards whatever I have asked of her. This is especially frustrating when she is off leash on a trail and out in the grass eating coyote poop. I will call her to come to me and after looking blankly at me, she goes off in a different direction. Today, after our long morning walk and her post walk nap, she decided she would no longer follow commands inside the house. Period.


    First, when we went outside the front door to pee, she made for the side of the house and I gave her a "no!" command, which usually works to keep her with me. Today she just looked back at me as she walked down the hill on the side of the house. I called her to me, she looked back one more time, and then ignored me entirely and made for the bottom of the back yard. She wouldn't come back to me, even with cookies in hand. Eventually I left her outside, came inside, cried for a bit, then went to the bottom of the back yard, called her again and when she wouldn't come, I bent down and picked up her 45lb body and carried her back into the house. I didn't yell, scream, say anything or reprimand her at all. I just calmly brought her inside. We then spent 20 minutes working through her commands.


    An hour later, my landlords came over to look at something to be repaired and she barked furiously at the door after they rang the bell. I couldn't get her to sit, lie down, go to her mat, do anything I asked of her. She was apoplectic. This is a very new behavior. I wouldn't open the door till she lay down (though it's hard to make people wait while I do the necessary training). Then she proceeded to jump all over them and excitedly nip at their faces (they thought it was funny, but I was trying to redirect her). Then she followed them into the yard and pulled bits off the bushes, broke off a low japanese maple branch, ran away with a piece of 2 x 4 they were working with, grabbed a piece of old concrete, and would not come to me. For the first time EVER, she grabbed one of the wooden railing dowels and tried to pull it out. When I told her to "Leave It!", a command she knows, she ignored me entirely and kept jawing it. I simply and quietly picked her up and brought her inside and she zoomied her little butt off in frustration. Now she is sleeping on the couch and I want to drive away and abandon her to my husband.


    I've been in touch with a hunt trainer, who thinks Ellie would benefit from using an E-collar to get her attention when she is in the field. It's not something I ever needed with our previous lab, who had an intense desire to please us right from the get-go (something Ellie has never exhibited) and who always wanted to be where I was. Is this the kind of thing an e-collar is used for?


    I know that all the hard work we put into the first two years of Ellie's life will result in a great adult dog, that has always been my philosophy, and Ellie is my top/only priority this year. But maybe I am not remembering how difficult it was to raise Stella ten years ago? I know it's unfair to compare the two dogs, especially an anxious puppy to a much beloved, well trained, recently departed canine soul mate (grief, grief, grief), but I look at Ellie some days and I think, "Who the hell are you?"

    Thanks, every one! And now I will begin to drink in earnest. I'm kidding!
    Last edited by happy_blackbird; 03-16-2015 at 06:06 PM. Reason: bad grammar

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  3. #2
    Senior Dog POPTOP's Avatar
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    I do understand what you are going through. When we had Dalmatians there was a stage that I was crying once a week at the obnoxious behavior. I promise it will get better. Continue to do what you are doing, go back to training 101 and hang in there. Keep a leash on her and let her know you expect her to behave. Patience is the key word and I know for you right know that is in short supply.

    Sending you hugs and tons of patience.

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  5. #3
    House Broken happy_blackbird's Avatar
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    I wish I could thank you, Poptop, a hundred times!

  6. #4
    Senior Dog sparky's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, been there done that!!! We have an E collar for Mocha. It has a "beep" function and a "correction" mode. When we had to go back to Puppy 101 we used the E collar. We only had to use the shock button 2-3 times over a 3 week re-training period when he would go deaf. We got the same look, "What? Who are you?", What do you want?" Now we only put the E collar on when company is coming over as we are still working on the over exuberant mode. We just use the beep mode now. That's enough to bring him back to the world of the hearing! Hang in there. It's all the fun and joy of loving a Lab!!!
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  8. #5
    House Broken happy_blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky View Post
    That's enough to bring him back to the world of the hearing!
    That's it! Ellie has gone selectively deaf and obstinate. Did you use a trainer to teach you how to properly use the e-collar? How old was he when you first used it? How do you know what setting is effective without hurting your lab? Did he yelp? I am thinking I might have to leave that first go of it with my husband, because even through I honestly feel like I want to throttle Ellie, I don't think I can stomach her yelping in pain.

  9. #6
    Best Friend Retriever OHfemail's Avatar
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    Such a frustrating stage...but the good news is that it's just a stage. Somewhere around 8 or 9 months, our dear sweet obedient yellow girl turned into a master at pushing buttons. It was like someone snuck into the house and replaced her with another dog! Back to Puppy 101, for sure - and no off leash until she gets her hearing back - lol! This is also the time to really go crazy with praise when she does something right. It will get better!

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  11. #7
    Puppy mrdigby's Avatar
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    Be firm in your leadership. It will pass.

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  13. #8
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    The leash is your friend. Sunshine went through three teenage phases, one minor and two that were just frustrating. She was also a very, very energetic young gal who NEEDED 4 or more hours a day of off leash run like a nut time every day.

    My solution was to leash up, into the car. Leash on at the lake, have her pull me to the lake. We'd walk to a secluded area and I take the leash off. I gave her no commands, she would ignore them anyway, but we would 'play' for a couple hours. When I could see she had had enough exercise, I would wait for an opportunity and just grab her and leash up, then back to the car and home. Leash on inside and lots of blockades so her roaming area was very limited. We worked on 'listening' to me inside. After what I think was about two weeks each time, the switch flipped and all of a sudden her memory came back and she was the perfect off leash puppy again!

    Her first one was at about 6 months old. It lasted a few days and I was ecstatic that it was over so fast!!! After the 4 week long biting stage, I really expected a pretty horrible teenage phase. Maybe all the time I have been putting in is paying off, she might turn out to be a good girl after all. A month or so later she started ignoring me again. I just thought alright, I must just have been mistaken about the signs I thought were the first one, no problem. A couple weeks later it passed and I liked my puppy again. A month or so goes by and it appears to be happening again??? She is ignoring absolutely everything I tell her! I'm thinking it might just be a temporary lapse so leash her up. A week later, she is still leashed up and not listening! I'm starting to think I might be in trouble now. I had already come to grips with the fact that I might have a lab that NEEDS 4 to 5 hours a day of off leash exercise all her life. Even at that point in her short life, we would go through several sets of regulars at the dog park. You know, get home from work, head to the off leash park, see the regulars there. They head off and the park can be empty. We go for a swim at the nearby pond, come back and the next group of regulars is arriving. She plays with her buddies and they slowly start to leave. We hit the pond again and come back to the late afternoon regulars.......

    Anyway... We got past that second long horrible leash up phase and she has been perfect ever since. So hang in there. It really does get better, as you know. Some of us just seem to get a more challenging lab pup than others. But, I have come to be thinking the more challenging pups turn out to be very, very attentive labs. Sunshine will hang on every word I say, waiting for the 'go!' I believe it is because of all the extra time they needed as pups. There was very little 'go lie down, I'm busy.' She was/is always right there, waiting for something to do.

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  15. #9
    Senior Dog sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy_blackbird View Post
    That's it! Ellie has gone selectively deaf and obstinate. Did you use a trainer to teach you how to properly use the e-collar? How old was he when you first used it? How do you know what setting is effective without hurting your lab? Did he yelp? I am thinking I might have to leave that first go of it with my husband, because even through I honestly feel like I want to throttle Ellie, I don't think I can stomach her yelping in pain.
    We did not use a trainer to show us how to use it we just read the manual provided and Crafther read several books.
    HE was about 7 months old when we first got it. We started with the beeping function first and that works for a while. Our E collar has different levels of sound and shock, from 1 to 15. We started with 10 on the beeping and 5 with the shock. Crafther tried it on her self at 3 and that was enough for her but it didn't phase Mocha. We started increasing until we got a reaction. We never wanted to have him yelp. He never yelped but he did twist the first time he felt it so we knew it was working. We only used the shock function 2-3 times during the first 6-8 weeks of training. We got the E collar at Petsmart. At that time it was $120.00. The link below shows it at $184.00 but I think you can find one cheaper. Good luck!.
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  17. #10
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    You've got this! Of course you are frustrated and want to strangle her. Do you use Nothing in Life is Free? When Kimber started acting exactly like you describe Ellie, she would lose all off-leash privileges (and it IS a privilege to be earned) and we'd practice strict NILF. Good luck and we are here for you!
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