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Thread: Stuck in a Rut

  1. #1
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    Stuck in a Rut

    I have a four year old lab who adores nearly everyone. We do rally obedience together (just World Cynosport, no other types of trials, so different than I see most people post about), and although I do rally and trial just for something fun to do, I am getting discouraged bc I have seen a definite plateau in the last year. I'm debating calling it quits and starting over.

    So... here is our history with training: I got my lab when he was 9 months old. I tried training myself for the first 6 months. I only managed to teach him sit and a 10 second stay. Called around and found a basic obedience trainer. She taught us the basics, my dog did great once I learned how to teach him. Still he was very exuberant, easily distracted, but I had learned to have better control over him while he was distracted if that makes sense, so he was much much much easier for me to manage. I often was told that he would mature when he turned two and I'd see him settle down a lot.

    Next, the same trainer taught us off leash work with an ecollar... I have to admit that I was totally blown away with just how much he began to focus during this class. He did a phenomenal job, he had a spark in a much different way than he had before... it may seem crazy, but before he seemed happy to be out doing things, being in new places, seeing other dogs and people... and during this class he morphed that into being happy to be out doing things WITH ME. Just after this class, he passes CGC testing, and I started searching for more classes to take. I wanted to continue to see this kind of improvement. Working with my dog was beginning to feel effortless... like he was another appendage... not a separate being!

    I ended up finding rally. We started out knowing how to do a lot of things that we needed to know, but started fresh in a way anyway with the first rally class. Things went great, and we started trials maybe within the first 6 months. We always get high scores, sometimes even perfect scores... but now, two years later we aren't doing more than level one trials, and I somehow lost that focus. I feel like our relationship has changed and all I am is the cookie feeder, not part of his team. He listens to me, hence the good scores, but he doesn't watch, doesn't focus, and is only happy when the treats come out. We still have great days sometimes where he's totally tuned into me, and things go seamlessly, but it seems that the "off days" are becoming the norm. He's easily distracted, and, a term I have learned recently reading the book Control Unleashed that describes him to a T: hypervigilent.

    Trainers are telling me he'll mature, he'll grow out of it. First it was when he's 3 he'll grow up and out of it, now that he's four I hear when he's 5 it'll get better. I want to be able to just believe them bc I do respect these people, they have taught us a lot, and do great with their own dogs... but I think that bc I have seen him work exactly as I'd like in the past that this might have way more to do with a hole somewhere in our training than it has to do with maturity. I don't know how or where to look for what we're missing either. When I ask about this, they say they see us making improvements, not to worry, he's smart, we're doing great in trials. I see a huge pattern of one step forward, two steps back, and I feel like our relationship is crumbling... and in the end I don't care that we're scoring well... we always have scored well, but we used to score well AND have great teamwork... and of those two things the teamwork and relationship aspect of the sport is what I crave... and we lost that along the way!

    I'd like to see him be a confident dog who works without caring what is going on around him again. I want him to want to work with me instead of wanting to visit any other living being in the room at the time. I want him to be happy to be my dog again :/

    Oh, and I read Control Unleashed, like I mentioned, but I'm not very confident in my translating the text to something I integrate into training on my own... so no, I haven't tried anything from the book.

    I'm stuck.

  2. #2
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    Are you mixing up your training, and making yourself unpredictable enough? Are you raising the bar enough for him? He sounds a bit bored to me (maybe you too...).

    Why are you stuck at Level 1 (sorry I know nothing about World Cynosport-- is that the on lead part like AKC novice?)? What do you need to do to get to Level 2? If it's a matter of offlead work, then yes, you most certainly have holes in the training if he's not heeling w/ you as he did before. Why don't you use the trainer with the methods that worked years ago anymore or is this a matter of that trainer not doing Rally? Anne
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  4. #3
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    Two thoughts - one, I agree with Anne that he and you may be bored. I don’t do Rally, but with Obedience stuff, they like to be challenged and learn more complicated and difficult things - the Novice level stuff tends to be pretty boring once you’ve mastered it. Also, if practicing the stuff you already know, don’t just do repetitive run-throughs - find ways to make the exercises more challenging ... add distractions, etc., that might more interest in both of you.

    Also though, it sounds like you are mainly using treats as a reward/motivator? You need to mix it up a bit - start playing games, using toys (either for tug or retrieve) as rewards occasionally. I mainly use food too, as that is what my dogs like best but we do a fair amount of playing as well ... it just has to be something interactive that you do WITH the dog (as opposed to just handing them a chew toy).
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    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
    Are you mixing up your training, and making yourself unpredictable enough? Are you raising the bar enough for him? He sounds a bit bored to me (maybe you too...).

    Why are you stuck at Level 1 (sorry I know nothing about World Cynosport-- is that the on lead part like AKC novice?)? What do you need to do to get to Level 2? If it's a matter of offlead work, then yes, you most certainly have holes in the training if he's not heeling w/ you as he did before. Why don't you use the trainer with the methods that worked years ago anymore or is this a matter of that trainer not doing Rally? Anne
    So, level two is off leash, then there is level three with more distance work. We do all three levels in class, sometimes on leash, sometimes off. I actually have noticed that he does better off leash... meaning he's more focused, pays less attention to distractions. I wonder if maybe that is because when we took that off leash class, I was so impressed with him listening so well off leash that I started doing TONS of training off leash? But I don't understand the reason for a disconnect when the leash goes on. The worry with trialing past level one on leash is that he would get distracted and leave the ring to visit. Two or three times in trials he has kind of taken off to see a dog or person, hits the end of the leash, then comes back to heel and if you hadn't just seen him run off, you would never know he left, he's right back to business. Many more times than that I have noticed his focus starting to drift and I'll say "look" and he's back on task. The times when he has bolted have always coincided with times that I'm having to focus more on what I'm doing. A good example is the last time that it happened, someone was playing with a squeaky toy outside of the gate, and we were walking straight towards the gate, our signs were fast pace, normal, then 360 right very close to the normal pace... I was having a hard time catching my own footing from the fast pace to the turn, and when I went to turn right, I hesitated... SQUEAK... bolt. So, our trainers don't think he's ready for level two trials.

    With level three when distance work comes into play, we have a whole other issue. He is great with distance work when treats are nowhere to be found. I had distance work down with him prior to our rally classes. Now I've found that even at home, if I'm practicing and have treats in my pocket, he creeps closer and closer to me, I guess anticipating the treat. If I start practicing before I go get treats out, he's SPOT on. Problem is, I can't ever convince him that I'm not working with treats in our training facility. It's like he thinks the place is a cookie free for all. I also think this is why he visits other people... they usually offer treats. I think I'm going to ask people not to feed him.

    But also with treats, if I don't have any, and he knows I don't have any, I have to practically beg him to heel. He wasn't like that before... but in the beginning levels of rally, we were taught to treat treat treat! Problem is, I don't know that we know how to properly wean away from treats. I don't even have to be giving them to him, he just needs to know, or think that I have them... and I hate that. So, that's the reason I say I don't feel like we have the same kind of partnership... I'm just the cookie dispenser to him now... and I think this maybe bothers me more than any other single part of this.

  7. #5
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    Yes, that sounds right, treats are pretty much our only reward. Even the games we have been taught so far involve treats. Retrieving might work. I can rarely get my dog into tugging, but if I toss something, it's his mission in life to bring it back! I think incorporating that into training will help a ton... and actually when I took that off leash class a lot of times we did practice while playing ball, so we were playing and reinforcing what he knew at the same time. Same with when I take him swimming, he could care less about any other distraction, and I've managed to teach him that when there's water in front of him, he doesn't step foot in it until I've released him... so he's very eager to do anything I ask at the lake regardless of what's going on around us, because he wants to be released so he can swim.

 



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