Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,366
    Thanked: 1096

    OK! I have a question about "DOWN"

    Remember... we aren't training for the ring. This is just training for good manners.

    Rocket Dog was a real lady (mostly) at PetSmart today. Did what I asked her to do. But when she's on a down... she actually crawls on her belly like a snake sniffing around and around. She actually made a full circuit around me. Still on her belly. I wish I had a video of it and could play it at a fast speed. It would be hysterical. Especially if I could loop it.

    I can stop the behavior by bringing her back into heel position. But that doesn't help with down. What I'd like her down to do is assume a sort of "parade rest". Relax... but do it right THERE.

    Does that make sense? Any suggestions? Is this one of those multi-stage, break it down into composite parts sort of skill? If it is, I just don't understand what those composite parts are.

  2. #2
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,947
    Thanked: 2421
    She clearly doesn't know what stay means. Teach that first, at home, in the yard, in your driveway, etc. then take it on the road. Set the dog up for success.

  3. #3
    Senior Dog Snowshoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    8,136
    Thanked: 5108
    LOL, I've taught Oban to do exactly what you don't want and we call it the Froggy Walk. I've seen people at trials occupying their dog with frontwards and backwards froggy walks (I don't think they called it that though) just for something to keep the dog engaged and focused on them while they waited. Maybe assigning that action a name would be a way to get control of it and then ask for it when you want it. That's done some times with things like barking or I used it for Zoomies.

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Greenwood, Delaware
    Posts
    7,348
    Thanked: 7148
    One of the things I wish I had done different was to not teach stay as a separate command. I would rather have just done sit means sit, don't move until I tell you to do something else. Kinda like Heel, means a position next to me, regardless if it's sitting, standing, down, or moving.

    One of the problems I created when Bruce was a pup, when I'd put him a a sit/stay and walk off he would lay down, he wouldn't go anywhere, he'd just lay down. I figured since he was technically "staying" I did not correct him. Fast forward to now, and while he doesn't do it very often, he will still do it, and as soon as he does it I instantly correct him, which I can do from a distance now.

    Sit means sit.
    Down means down.
    Heel means heel.
    Here means here.

    If RD is solid on a sit/stay, which she should based on all the gundog training, you should be able to fix this pretty quickly. As Labradorks said, start at home, then work from there.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Greenwood, Delaware
    Posts
    7,348
    Thanked: 7148
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowshoe View Post
    LOL, I've taught Oban to do exactly what you don't want and we call it the Froggy Walk. I've seen people at trials occupying their dog with frontwards and backwards froggy walks (I don't think they called it that though) just for something to keep the dog engaged and focused on them while they waited. Maybe assigning that action a name would be a way to get control of it and then ask for it when you want it. That's done some times with things like barking or I used it for Zoomies.
    I use crawl for this one!! People love it when I have them do it!

  6. #6
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,366
    Thanked: 1096
    Many years ago, (MANY) I taught a dog to fall down and lay on his back with his legs in the air when I made a gun with my hand and said "BANG". So he was such a fine dog, I figured, hey... let's put a CD on him. Want to guess what he did on the recall?

    We did get the CD. I think the judges were so amused they found enough points for us to squeak by.

  7. #7
    Senior Dog
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanked: 2277
    I agree with getting a solid stay in, but also it might help if you teach a down where she goes off on a hip (as opposed to a sphinx like down). We teach both - the sphinx is for something like Utility signals or a drop on recall where we need them to come up off it quickly, and the off on a hip (I call it “rest”) is for longer things like the down stay. They can move and wiggle from a “rest” but it’s harder than it is from a sphinx like down.
    Annette

    Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
    Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015

    Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009

    And remembering:

    Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
    Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015

    And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014

    Hidden Content

  8. #8
    Senior Dog Labradorks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,947
    Thanked: 2421
    Quote Originally Posted by barry581 View Post
    One of the things I wish I had done different was to not teach stay as a separate command. I would rather have just done sit means sit, don't move until I tell you to do something else. Kinda like Heel, means a position next to me, regardless if it's sitting, standing, down, or moving.

    One of the problems I created when Bruce was a pup, when I'd put him a a sit/stay and walk off he would lay down, he wouldn't go anywhere, he'd just lay down. I figured since he was technically "staying" I did not correct him. Fast forward to now, and while he doesn't do it very often, he will still do it, and as soon as he does it I instantly correct him, which I can do from a distance now.

    Sit means sit.
    Down means down.
    Heel means heel.
    Here means here.

    If RD is solid on a sit/stay, which she should based on all the gundog training, you should be able to fix this pretty quickly. As Labradorks said, start at home, then work from there.
    Most people that I know teach it as a separate command and don't have any issues. Since the dog doesn't know the difference between stay or freeze, like a human would, you can create your own criteria. If I were on the sofa and you told me to stay, I would stay on the sofa but I might change my position, pick up my laptop, change the tv station with the remote, get a drink of water, etc. Now, if you told me to freeze, I wouldn't move a muscle. You can teach a dog that stay means to stay in the area or to freeze since they don't know otherwise, like a human. So, if my dog is sitting and I tell him to stay and walk away and he twists or goes into a sloppy sit, that is not a stay as much as laying down on a sit stay is not a stay. For a pet dog, I might not care what position he was in as long as he was not coming forward.

  9. #9
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2,366
    Thanked: 1096
    Thanks for the suggestions. We went to our first obedience class and that crawling-on-her-belly-like-a-snake was her only weakness. And the only time she did it was when the guy next to us with the skiperkee (sp?)/scottie cross (what a cute little dog!) was struggling mightily to get her to focus and using lots of yummie treats and verbal encouragements. RD really did think she deserved those treats, and/or figured she could squiggle over there and somehow help them out. RD certainly was NOT paying attention to me in that moment.

    So, just like many of you have suggested, at home we are working on "PLACE" (I think other people use different words... in class they said something like "BED"... can't remember). We have 3 dogs and so we can provide RD with lots of distractions. Especially at dinner time. When the 3 of them all want tidbits. She was doing pretty well.

    DOWN is just a simple, lay down. It implies lay-down-and-stay-there. Hopefully, it also is understood as lay-down-whether-I'm-here-beside-you-or-if-I-walk-away.

    In contrast PLACE is a go-out and a DOWN and a STAY THERE command.

    In any event... we're working on stopping the squiggle-away kind of behavior.

 



Not a Member of the Labrador Retriever Chat Forums Yet?
Register for Free and Share Your Labrador Retriever Photos

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •