Force fetch

[Rogue's_itchin_to_go]

I am currently in force fetch with my lab he is ten months old. He is almos done on the force table all I have left to do is force him with a bird then I'll be moving to force/fetch on the ground then walking fetch. Then force to the pile until he will run about 250-300 yards with no problem. After that should i do water force or should I give him a break from all the pressure and just go over sit heel and whistle command and place for a while give him some marks. Or do i go straight to fore to the pile in water
now tbis is my first dog I trained so im open to all advice. I just don't want him to lose his drive with all the pressure that force fetch puts on him. he is from a high end blood line so i think he can handle it this was him today with a teal

[TuMicks]

You really just read your dog. That is the wonderful part of being an amateur with one (or a few) dogs.

We could not do water force with Rocket Dog because it was winter. She was older than "normal" when we seriously got to water. But so what? I have come to believe that she is on her own time line and we are not going to be setting records for the youngest dog ever to go to the Master National.

You will have warm water sooner and longer than those of us in other parts of the country. You don't have some narrow window to force your boy in to. My sense is that if he's worked hard and made good progress with FF... then give him marks. And even when you start yard work with single and double T... you can certainly give him field work. Just don't run blinds or try to handle him (to any marks) until he's ready for that.

I'm not a hunter. So I wasn't being all anal about getting her ready to hunt as a youngster in her first (or even second) hunting season. The pro's I know don't want client dogs to be hunted until they're really solid. It's easy to see why when you go to a HT in the Spring. The dogs that were hunted months earlier are just crazy. The dogs that were not, remembered and retained what they'd been taught the previous year.

[Rogue's_itchin_to_go]

I want to enter him in a started hunt test in a month its the last one until fall and I wanted to have his started title. Before hunting season
but like you said I'm the opposite of you I'm more interested in hunting him and just doing the hunt test on the side as a bonus

[Rogue's_itchin_to_go]

When I start force to the pile what's the best way to make him run a straight line
And what do you send them on dead bird back

[Anna Scott]

When we start force to the pile we start close to the pile, identify it by tossing a bumper on, send, and as the dog is going out we back up. Does he have his back command? If so we receive the bumper with the dog sitting in front and then give a straight up vocal back for the next retrieve. This starts to reinforce the concept that a straight up vocal back means turn and dig straight back. no flairing right or left. Back up and receive the next bumper at heel position. Just keep alternating these two until you have worked out to a good distance. Then you can use a nick to force on the way to the pile. We teach all legs of the three leg drill in this manner as well.Another way to reinforce a straight line is to stretch out a line of white bumpers with a red on at the end of the chain. Dog simple is sent for the bumpers. As the first one is visible it creates confidence as he picks it up he can see the next one. If he over runs one of the bumpers don't worry he will get it the next time. The final bumper is red so that you are proofing if he understands the concept of "dead bird, back" as dogs don't distinguish the red. Keep it light with out a great deal of pressure and he will soon be running straight lines. Remember the spines the line. You want to be sure that the dogs spine is lined up in the direction of the pile or bumper. Keep him sitting straight beside you.

[Rogue's_itchin_to_go]

I'm not sure I was alternating between back and sending on his name but I have just been sending him on his name latley I thought force to the pile is when you establish the back command not sure what you mean about the red

[TuMicks]

If it's a blind retrieve, send him on "BACK". (After the cue "Dead Bird"... hand down...pause... "BACK") If it's a mark, you send him on his name.

(I'm just telling you what most folks do. Dogs are smart and will figure out what you mean. But it's always a good idea to differentiate for the dog what skill set you want him to display.)

As Anna said, "BACK" is a double-duty command and the FTP helps the dog learn how you use it. One is when he's at your side about to go out... and you employ the cues. The other is when he's facing you and you stick your hand in the air and say BACK it means go straight back.

I don't have red bumpers... but I have orange. It's good to have both white and orange, since white builds confidence (they can see them easily) and orange builds trust... (I can't see it, but I'll find it.) So Anna is saying that a way to deal with a banana-like line is to lay out the white, then put the "invisible bumper" at the end. He'll follow the straight track that he just learned with the white bumpers.

[Rogue's_itchin_to_go]

That makes more sense some when I start force o the pile start with dead bird back right or just back

[Rogue's_itchin_to_go]

Or do I only use dead bird back with orange bumpers
mans send him on his name for white

[Anna Scott]

As Tu Mick`s says use back for your pile work and for blind retrieves once he is learning them. We only use the dog`s name when sending for a mark (something he has seen fall).
How much cue you give is dependent on your dog. I start with the word `dead`, as we are leaving the holding blind. That cues the dog that it is going to be a blind. With my old dog I would sit her, then say `Dead bird, line,` and once she was focused on the initial line to the blind then I would release her with the word, ` back. My present dog is higher so we start with the `dead`,`cue from the blind and then it is simply sit, line then back. The more I talk to her on line the higher she gets. So a quick line up and send are the answer. I don`t even put my hand down as she lines off my left leg.