Originally Posted by
Labradorks
If you're talking about me, I was asking honest questions. I have said multiple times, do what you have to do. And, I have suggested prongs to people in certain situations. However, if I had to rely on a prong, I would not have been accepted into the best trainer's classes or lessons, I could not have gone to many matches, I could not have taken my puppy to AKC events to hang out, etc. I was curious about how others might handle that. I think it might be a regional thing with the prongs in training. You just never really see that around here, with very few exceptions.
I have also not ever heard of anyone rewarding their dog while using a prong. I was curious about that, too, and think it's worth mentioning, especially on a pet dog forum. From a pet dog point of view, I see lots of instructions on how to fit a prong and how the dog "learns his lesson" when he hits the end, but I've yet to see someone give good advice on rewarding the dog for doing what you want him to do. Or what types of temperaments of dogs do better with a prong and which ones might have issues (shutting down, redirecting aggression, losing trust in the owner, etc.). Perhaps someone should write something on that? Being that so many people use them or plan to use them, I think it would be a great idea.
Of course there are dogs being trained with prongs, e-collars and what not who do really well in competition. The ways in which people train their dogs and win competitions, past and present, is astounding! Stringing dogs up, throwing chains at their dogs' heads during the DOR, slamming them into walls, all things that people have and still do use and can get great performances out of their dogs. There is a very real issue of abuse in field work, which is not big secret. Point being, just because people's dogs do well or even really well using certain tools (or, in come cases, "tools") that doesn't mean that the methods are justified and that it's OK. Like you said, there are other ways to reach an objective and why use a method that is harsh when there are other methods which are not that are proven to work just as well? Even Leerburg (huge proponent of prongs and e-collars and pretty much hates +R trainers) will tell you that a use of a prong or e-collar or corrections to one dog may be abuse to the next.
My overall issue isn't experienced trainers using the right corrections, timed appropriately on the right dogs. There just aren't that many people who hold that skill or have that experience, and I hate seeing people use "tools" that might not be the best fit for their dog or for them when those tools can be harmful when used inappropriately, even on accident and without malice. There are other tools that work and in some cases work better for certain dogs and/or handlers. I don't think that making people aware of that fact is bad, especially when prongs seem to be most people last resort and not many people want to use one.