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  1. #11
    Senior Dog IRISHWISTLER's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=windycanyon;And please don't consider an ecollar. The fact you and your friends are referring to it as a "shock" collar tells me volumes about the experience level.] [\QUOTE]

    Windycanyon - good catch, more like lack of experience. It seems many on this forum use the term "shock" collar as a derogatory lable, propaganda used by those that are anti-e-collar training ( a number of them likely have never used an e-collar yet consider themselves qualified to denounce their use).

    Granted, some folks just choose not to use an e-collar and I can respect and support that choice / option. I do find it annoying when those that choose not to use an e-collar make it a mission to "convert" those of us that choose to use one. I also concur there are folks out there that should never pick up an e-collar, never mind actually use one.

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  3. #12
    Senior Dog windycanyon's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=IRISHWISTLER;132687]
    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon;And please don't consider an ecollar. The fact you and your friends are referring to it as a "shock" collar tells me volumes about the experience level.
    [\QUOTE]

    Windycanyon - good catch, more like lack of experience. It seems many on this forum use the term "shock" collar as a derogatory lable, propaganda used by those that are anti-e-collar training ( a number of them likely have never used an e-collar yet consider themselves qualified to denounce their use).

    Granted, some folks just choose not to use an e-collar and I can respect and support that choice / option. I do find it annoying when those that choose not to use an e-collar make it a mission to "convert" those of us that choose to use one. I also concur there are folks out there that should never pick up an e-collar, never mind actually use one.

    Irishwhistler
    I'd really rather folks NOT use an ecollar unless they are willing to work w/ a pro trainer or someone who has been at it (successfully) training / competing their own dogs for many years. Too many get flippant about corrections, don't understand the concept of collar conditioning and all the other foundation training that goes into it. Do I use one? yes, but... hopefully people understand I've been at this game awhile too. I've been asked by several to help them w/ an ecollar, and so far, have turned away 95% of them because the foundations weren't there, and were likely never going to be there that are needed.
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  4. #13
    Senior Dog TuMicks's Avatar
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    Couple of things...

    I agree with everything that has been said about the e-collar. It's most commonly seen in training of field/hunting dogs who are expected to respond to intricate commands 100's of yards away from the handler. (They are also used in training police and tactical dogs where aggression has to be under exquisite control.) As you can imagine, all of these skills are developed over many many months, incrementally. So the e-collar is absolutely not any kind of short-cut. As a matter of fact, one of the cardinal rules about e-collars is that they are NEVER used to teach ANYTHING. They are only used to reinforce things the dog absolutely and without question knows how to do. The dog is taught everything conventionally. To use it correctly takes a lot of care and know-how.

    And with a soft or timid dog, the e-collar probably would be counter-productive. (And... I am a big proponent of the e-collar and use it almost every day... that is to say, I train every day and the dog has it on whenever we train.) Anyhow, a soft dog...

    The thing to remember about the e-collar is that the dog perceives it as a bolt from the blue. They don't know that you are delivering the stimulus. So for instance, if DeeDee is 12 feet from you (let's say she's at the end of your driveway next to the mailbox) and you call her and nick her... she only knows that the place near the mailbox is dangerous because she got "bitten" there by unseen forces. She will not necessarily connect the stimulus to you. And in the vernacular of e-collar trainers, you've just "poisoned" that spot. BUT, DeeDee will probably come racing back to you. Now let's say you're in a park and you want to call her again and you nick her. In DeeDee's mind... the world is becoming full of bad, dangerous, poisoned places. So, extrapolate that to many many such sessions and soon she could become a neurotic wreck. This is the kind of dog who panics and bolts.

    Now... that's the negative part of the post. Here's the good news. Sounds like DeeDee is a smart little dog. She just is a softy. It's probably baked into the cake so to speak. Some dogs are just born that way. You can train her for sure. Classes are a FABULOUS place to start. You'll find two kinds of people there: 1) the trainer who can become an excellent resource for you and 2) other people who have more questions about their dogs than answers at this stage... i.e., people a lot like you. So by all means find a class, get registered and get crackin'!!!

    One word to folks about "leash laws": Check the laws in your county. (I had to, after a loon called animal control on me... long story related elsewhere.) Most of these statutes say a dog must be "under control at all times." So, if I am walking Ram Jet Rocket Dog without a leash, and I have my whistle around my neck, and am stopped by anyone... I can demonstrate that she is under precise control. So... do I walk her without a leash? NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Because even the remote risk of a rabbit or ground squirrel darting past her at the same time as a car comes along... stuff can happen in a split second. (I had a friend whose Master National Hunting Retriever died under the wheels of a truck in just this way.)

    For Dee Dee, I'd suggest you get a lunge line. Or make one with some polycord from Home Depot. Make it about 20 feet long. Get a pocketful of her favorite treats. Go for a walk. Let her lead out (or lag behind) but call her to you periodically. When she comes in response to your command (even if you have to initiate it with a little tug) give her a treat and tell her what a WONDERFUL, FABULOUS girl she is... make a huge stink over her.

    Just work on that before you start classes and you both will be having a lot of fun while you work on your recall.

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  6. #14
    Best Friend Retriever silverfz's Avatar
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    We have used e collar on Gigi a few times I'm vibration mode.wr have kept it at 20 of a possible 100 . This only because she was getting too big and jumping on our cat and mini dashund could hurt them bad. The cat can atleast escape the dashund had now where to go. Again we only used a few times when we dog sit the dashund. Now we work with leave it and on bad days lavender with the cat.
    Gigi is 5 months and it takes time and effort to raise a lab. My neighbour has a bull dog who is 6month and lives in a crate for. 20 hrs a day and shocked . She and Gigi are totally different . Gigi has more personally which we like the other one just is nuts and feel bad for her.



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  7. #15
    Best Friend Retriever Java's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverfz View Post
    My neighbour has a bull dog who is 6month and lives in a crate for 20 hrs a day...
    Oh, I'm so sad for your neighbour's dog.

  8. #16
    Best Friend Retriever silverfz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Java View Post
    Oh, I'm so sad for your neighbour's dog.
    The explanation, she is a Christmas dog .so got from a store on Dec 24 for 4500 bucks . She was trained for a day by some trainer and is rather sweet. I really did not want a dog after bear and Rocco till i started to feed and take her out when my neighbour cannot make it home after all day outings. She is a very sweet girl .... After I spent a few times taking her out and feeding decided to get Gigi.

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  9. #17
    Senior Dog IRISHWISTLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverfz View Post
    The explanation, she is a Christmas dog .so got from a store on Dec 24 for 4500 bucks . She was trained for a day by some trainer and is rather sweet. I really did not want a dog after bear and Rocco till i started to feed and take her out when my neighbour cannot make it home after all day outings. She is a very sweet girl .... After I spent a few times taking her out and feeding decided to get Gigi.

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    Your neighbors should be jailed for 20 hours per day.

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  11. #18
    Best Friend Retriever Java's Avatar
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    I just re-read the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by freeasabird View Post
    Now, for the real question: Has anybody tried/worked with/used a shock collar? My co-workers German Shepherd got therapy dog training using shock collars to stimulate him and he has gone completely leash less.
    I'm not a trainer but I took my lab Boomer to one who's known for her success with German Shepherds (she knows and trains labs too). We talked about Boomer's chronic barking when he's excited or left alone in the car (even if I'm standing right next to it). She watched and listened to him bark as we talked and said, very carefully, that the most effective solution for a dog that's used to hearing itself bark like that for years was an e-collar. She also said that if I chose to try that route, I should contact her for the specific one that would be best and that I shouldn't use it, that I should bring the collar and Boomer to her to use the first time (and for her to train me on using the vibration mode correctly). She explained the theory of how it would work and that it had to be used properly the first time out (and thereafter) or else it would no longer be effective.

    Her advice was for chronic excitement barking but I imagine the same is true for using e-collars for other kinds of training as well. In the hands of experienced trainers, an e-collar's an excellent training tool when used correctly and in the right context but as a novice, I personally would invest my time and efforts in good obedience courses first. I think training dogs is like playing golf. Everyone has an opinion (right or wrong) on what you should do but ultimately, your game improves the most when you go to a professional for help.

    If you're curious, I've decided not to try the e-collar even with the trainer's help. Boomer's barking is manageable. We just go through drive-thru's for coffee.

 



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