IRISHWISTLER (10-02-2016), Scoutpout (10-02-2016), silverfz (10-02-2016), Tanya (11-03-2016)
The e-collar intuitively seems like the perfect tool for this sort of thing. But it totally is not. It's only a tool for re-enforcing something the dog knows absolutely and without any question. The problem with using the collar when the dog is vague on the concept of "HERE/COME" is that you'll nick them out there somewhere, and the dog doesn't know what hit him. He has no idea that the sting/bite/hurt/itch stimulation came from you. But he knows that place in the yard or park is dangerous. For that reason he'l come back to you and you would (reasonably) think the collar taught the dog the skill. Next time you use it... that invisible dog bites your dog AGAIN... whoa, there are all kinds of scary invisible dangers out there. Eventually the dog becomes fearful, less likely to want to engage in any behavior and in extreme cases the dog will just panic and bolt. (very embarrassing to have to pick up your dog AND the e-collar at Animal Control.)
The e-collar is a very useful and powerful tool and I use it. But I wouldn't be using it if I hadn't had a professional (like Irish Whistler) REDO the basic obedience I put in on my pup and then collar condition her. (The theory is that you are teaching the dog how to "turn off" the stimulation. But they have to have the Ob first to get the response you want.
But believe me (and all the folks here who do not use the e-collar.) You can absolutely get a good recall on your dog using good old conventional methods. And the important thing is that you care enough about your dog to do it. Go for it!
IRISHWISTLER (10-02-2016), Scoutpout (10-02-2016), silverfz (10-02-2016), Tanya (11-03-2016)
BTW: It took 3 weeks of light duty and non-steroidals for the pain to really go away. (I'm in the gym lifting twice a week and try to swim 3 times/week. Both were very much curtailed.) I thought I'd be going to the orthopedist for an MRI. But then I always "catastrophize" most things.
Our best friend was helping out one of her friends by walking her 80 pound boxer. Needless to say ZERO recall on that dog. He took off in a dead run causing her to face plant in the yard and broke her arm. $2300 out of pocket for her generosity.
Latte wears a 20 foot lead 100% of the time while we work on recall. We have plenty of yard but no fence and I am not going to chase an 10 week old puppy all over! Mocha is 98% on recall. There are times when he goes completely deaf. Something we are working on. We have the ecollar but he knows when he has that on he is 110% on all commands. We call it his hearing aid!
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Mocha:Born 7/13/14 Gottcha 9/13/14 Latte: Born 7/15/16 Gottcha 9/9/16
Labs- "Hearts of gold, heads of stone, cast iron stomachs"
Thank you for reinforcing that the e-collar is not the teaching tool. We are dealing with a fellow that may have ruined his hunting dog by trying to get a recall using the collar. If you are going to use a collar it is really, really important that you get some instruction on how to use them properly. I can remember that when we first started to use the collar, after the dogs were conditioned, Bill used to make us leave the transmitter on a chair behind us. He said by the time we walked back to get it we would have figured out what we did wrong and come up with a solution for getting a proper response from the dog. Teach, teach, simplify before a correction is used.
Tu Mick don't fool around with that shoulder. One of our group separated her shoulder and chipped a bone on the weekend using the winger. She had a brain freeze and tried to release the pocket before loosening the rubbers. We "more mature woman" just don't have the strength to do things like this when the rubbers are brand new. I am really cautious around the wingers, In fact I have not used my all summer.
Take care.
IRISHWISTLER (10-02-2016)
Oh, baby. Treat those wingers like they're loaded guns. I do them... a lot... but I respect the hell out of them. If I have any twinge, I'll be off the the MD.
oooohhh OUCH. very impressive "hold" on your part! i sure hope no lasting damage.... just wondering, did the dog get any recall work while in your care afterwards? i bet you could have much better results than what the dog has now...
this is partly what terrifies me about training up a new pup (the list is long-taking a wonderful little sponge and not giving Pup all the good training needed to bring out all of Pup's potential...yikes), recall is just such a huge deal, and i worry that it won't be where i need it to be, 100%.
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Scout CD RAE6 WC March 6, 2007; Tullemore Browning Superposed PCD RN RI "Trigger" Nov 11, 2016
Missing:
Castelleja's Dual Mags "Mags" March 1993 - March 2008
"Pocco" the chocolate wonder August 1993 - December 2007
+3 on the E-collar is not to teach, but to enforce known commands. I live by the saying" You can put pressure on a dog but you can never take it away after" Unlike most on here I teach Sit first and foremost. Before recall. Why? It plays such a big part of all retriever work to come, and it make the pups easy to catch Vic
Gosh, I thought you were describing a rodeo I had w/ an 85# dog a couple weeks ago whose owner told me how "good" his obed was now... Sore back (broke it many yrs ago, so it's toast) for several days. I have zero tolerance for that kind of behavior in an adult (or even adolescent) dog anymore, mainly due to my physical limitations.
The best training is done before those babies hit 35# imo!!!!
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The WindyCanyon Girls (taken Summer 2018)
IntCH WindyCanyon's Northern Spy CDX RA JH OA OAJ CC (14.5 yrs)
IntCH WindyCanyon's Ruby Pink BN CD RA CC (4.5 yrs)
IntCH WindyCanyon's Kanzi BN CDX RE JH (5 yrs)
IntCH WindyCanyon ItsOnlyMoneyHoneycrisp BN RN CC (16mos)
IntCH WindyCanyon's Pippin BN RI CC (2.5 yrs)IntCH WindyCanyon's Envy CDX RE JH CC (10.5 yrs)
IntCH HIT WindyCanyon's Kiku A Fuji Too CDX RE JH CC (10 yrs)
Absolutely. If you sit the dog and tell them to "HERE"... you're inviting and rewarding leaving the SIT position. Why wouldn't the dog figure that SIT is a transient condition. Hillmann emphasizes this point a lot. When he's doing his "traffic cop" phase of training, he simultaneously (gently) pulls on the leash while commanding SIT. Then when the dog sits like a rock, he walks to over and tells him what a splendid dog he is.
Yup - we use tension on the leash frequently to remind the dog to hold a stay (usually a sit as they don’t have as much trouble with holding a down). We do it while training initially, but as a matter of fact, that’s STILL how I warm up Chloe before going in the ring for the out of sight sits and downs in Open ... I tell her “sit”, then tug forward on the leash (not hard, and not a jerk - just a constant pull forward). If she resists and holds the sit she gets a treat The idea is if they have to fight to hold the position, they’ll be more cognizant of what they are doing, and less likely to get distracted and forget what they are supposed to do.
Annette
Cookie (HIT HC Jamrah's Legally Blonde, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
Sassy (HIT Jamrah's Blonde Ambition, UDX, OM2, BN) 6/4/2015
Chloe (HIT HC OTCH Windsong's Femme Fatale, UDX4, OM6, RE) 6/7/2009
And remembering:
Scully (HC Coventry's Truth Is Out There, UD, TD, RN) 4/14/1996 - 6/30/2011
Mulder (Coventry's I Want To Believe, UD, RN, WC) 5/26/1999 - 4/22/2015
And our foster Jolie (Windsong's Genuine Risk, CDX) 5/26/1999 - 3/16/2014
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