Almost 1 years old and still biting us. At the end of my rope.

[rlcoleman9484]

Hey all.

I'm at the end of my rope and I need ALL of the help.

Backstory: I had 4 female Labs. Ages 15, 14, 12 and 3. Over the last year, I lost my first 3 original girls...all within a couple months of each other. One from an inoperable cancerous tumor, one from bloat from colon cancer, and the last from a very random and sudden heart issue just two months ago. It's been a VERY bad and traumatizing year, to say the least. Lots of tears and tears that still continue.

After we lost the first two, we still had the 12yo and 3yo. My partner and I decided to get a a puppy as a playmate friend for us and the youngest 3yo, who was BEYOND devastated at the loss of her pack. We got the puppy, Poppy, at 16 weeks old from a reputable local breeder. Immediately, the 3yo was happy to have a friend and perked right up.

The biting was HORRENDOUS from Day 1. She would bite our faces, hands and feet. She was almost completely untouchable. So, we got her into training classes...which she PASSED with all flying colors! Seriously, she was a completely different dog and a PERFECT student. All of the trainers remarked on how smart and quick-to-learn she was. She was picture perfect in class...and then we would bring her home and her toothy assaults would continue, sometimes drawing blood. She's not doing it out of aggression...it seems like she just gets so hyper and overstimulated that she mouths you, but just too hard.

Fast forward to now. The 12yo passed away and it's now just Poppy (11mo) and Bathory (3yo). The biting is still terrible, but the worst part is...she's NOW started to bite Bathory. She just constantly chases her and goes for her paws, legs, scruff and back. Bathory is so gentle and calm and refuses to snap at her...she just goes behind a piece of furniture to hide, or comes to us for protection. This CANNOT continue. Because nothing else works, we inevitably end up crating Poppy for periods throughout the day to give us all a break, which isn't fair to her either since my partner and I work from home and are here all the time.

We have tried everything from yelping when she bites us, to forcefully grabbing her muzzle and saying "No Bite!"...to keeping her on a leash with us in the living room, to giving her a rawhide to chew on. NOTHING is working. I've sifted through every dog training website known to man and tried each and every thing published...to no success. She gets LOTS of exercise and mental stimulation...long walks, hikes, chews, etc. We wear her out to the point of collapse, and she will still come back into the house and run around like a terrorist on a biting spree.

She's now 78lbs, bruising us on a daily basis and terrorizing the other dog.

What am I doing wrong? What can I do differently? I'm at a complete loss.

[Tanya]

how much physical and mental exercise does she get? (specifically beyond rough housing)?

If she is "very smart" i am thinking she needs more mental exercise. If you feed from a bowl i'd recommend stopping, food should be given (most of the time) via training sessions (a few short 3 minutes sessions even if that's all you can do) and food puzzles/toys.

I'd work on training calmness, some dogs need to learn this as they won't ever chill on their own. I'll try to get some links on that later today to explain exactly how to do this.

I'd work on structured exercise that isn't rough housing with the other dog.

[Tanya]

Teaching calmness:
(1) Capture calmness--when your dog is calm, tell him how wonderful he is
(2) Make a special time to be calm every day--turn it into a ritual. Time to read a book, work on the computer or snuggle on the couch for your favorite show?
(3) Make certain places “calm areas”. Some folks choose a bedroom others the whole house. gently ask teh pup to be calm a couple of times. If he isn’t send him out to the yard.
(4) Practice just “hanging out” outside too--park bench, lazy Sundays on the porch, etc. It’s really good for your pup to enjoy a bit of sunshine and watching everyone else run around (from a comfortable distance). (Treats can be used but are not necessary).


Here are some of my favorite links on teaching calmness--enjoy!!

Teaching calmness (training positive )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxMHwrSqD8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCk5VxHZ398
Capturing calmness (note, I don’t use a clicker for this!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wesm2OpE_2c&feature=youtu.be

Smart 50 (Kathy Sdao):
https://www.dogsandbabieslearning.com/2013/02/09/kathy-sdaos-smart-x-50-another-way-to-use-1000-treats/

Kikopup Positive interrupter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvPaqMZyo8

Jazz up settle down
https://reactivechampion.blogspot.com/2010/12/ian-dunbar-seminar-train-opposite-to.html

[Tanya]

I would set up your environment with a gate or door you can exit. If she is acting up you walk over the gate. no words. just leave and go where she cannot reach (if there is a safe way to tether her this work to). basically if she is not playing appropriately she looses what she wants - YOU. I'd plan a few days where I will plan to do this eventually you can fade it out.

[Snowshoe]

Welcome to the board. You are an experienced dog owner, with Labs to boot, and you've exhausted most avenues of help. I think you need to bring in behaviourist to observe you two in action with Poppy. At not yet one year old she is still a puppy, and entering the phase of testing the limits. Obedience classes, competitive or just family pet, should be on-going. A class with more action like agility or rally (not a lot of action in the beginning stages) might help channel her energy. AS you have discovered, exercise on it's own can lead simply to a very fit dog who still does not behave as you wish. She's lovely, I don't believe a thing you posted, that pretty face? No way. Kidding, little pretty terror.

[Java]

I’m so sorry for the loss of your three beloved dogs. A very hard year for you. Harder still because Poppy sounds unlike any of your other labs... so far.

I wish I had advice to give but don’t have the experience with labs that you clearly do. One question occurs to me however - does Poppy act the same way if Bathory is out of the house (perhaps out with one of you on a walk or errand)?

[JenC]

Have you talked to the breeder of your pup? While not a lab, my griff needs a TON of mental stimulation. She and our youngest lab can be huge pests to the older dogs but I take the younger ones out for training and they are usually tired when we get home. What's funny is that once we had 2 labs, the pups always bit the adults and not the humans, and biting stopped pretty early. Our first lab who was an only dog for about 2 years, he bit me until about 1 year in play. I hated him for a long time. He was my husband's dog. But I took him to training and eventually obedience competitions and he worked with me.

[Annette47]

Have you talked to the breeder of your pup? While not a lab, my griff needs a TON of mental stimulation. She and our youngest lab can be huge pests to the older dogs but I take the younger ones out for training and they are usually tired when we get home. What's funny is that once we had 2 labs, the pups always bit the adults and not the humans, and biting stopped pretty early. Our first lab who was an only dog for about 2 years, he bit me until about 1 year in play. I hated him for a long time. He was my husband's dog. But I took him to training and eventually obedience competitions and he worked with me.

I had the same thing - the first one, which was an only dog was the worst biter we've had. Obedience training/competing helped her, too. She helped raise our next dog who never bit us at all. But she was a tough-love kind of dog and didn't let him put a toe out of line. He was there for Chloe but he let her walk all over him so she was a biter, too, although not as bad as our first one. She was relatively easy to teach to bite us gently though, and to this day I allow her to mouth my hand lightly as a reward in the ring. The two younger dogs I have now have never bit us at all - probably because Chloe was there for them their whole lives and taught them manners.

To the OP, I agree with more mental stimulation. When he gets bitey, try asking for a command or two to take his mind off of it. If that doesn't work and he is too overstimulated to work, then put him in a time-out and give him no attention until he settles. The ideal is if you can catch him as he is ramping up but before he gets to the point of not being able to listen. Good luck - this will pass, it just takes a while.

[silverfz]

Gigi my lab mix is bitey. Even now at day care she get a bit crazy .
We started young so maybe you can still use the things we used.

What do you mean training , Gigi trained like a Shepard . very very intense so she gave the vibe of she can do anything. So basic classes were a breeze.
then in more advanced training is where she struggled. She would not lay down with touching other dogs or listen in environments with other dogs, toys and cookies. Her bity self will popup or
she will go full zoombies in such choas, she passed the training, but we had work hard as that was her thing. She can now down with other dogs touching her or in a crowded room . But it was not easy.

When she was a puppy we looked like people who cut them selfs, lucky my trainer told us about lavender - i got a bottle from GNC and when little put a dropin her tongue.
so when she get nutz all we did was put a drop in our hand and ankles and she did not like that at all.Plus lavendar calms them too. My kids ankles got vicks rub too.

Even now when the mouthy bossy gigi shows up the empty bottle of lavendar is her cue to cut the crap. We have few bottle that look like the bottle around the house .

We also left a 6ft leash on her at home so when she get crazy we can control her.

Gigi does get enough exercise, the only reason she goes to day care is i had back surgery and am not into walking in dark or icy condition .

She was a hard nut to crack and took alot of work, maybe i could i spend more for a pure breed and not a mix i got for 400 bucks from a back yard breeder but at the end of the day we adore her and think she is amazing. She is the perfect dog for us. She has been a great watchdog when needed. she has warned us and kept a big black bear from our campsite one night with her around i do not have to worry when i have to run out with kids in the house as she is very protective of them. When we camp and the kids are at the playground she will keep an eye on them like a hawk. She is my hiking buddy and is so gentle with our kids. She saved the bitey to only for me and the wife not for kids.

good luck...Gigi is a female close to 90 lbs and build body wise like the shepard so tall. So she looks like a tall chocolate lab and even now is a freight train.

[TuMicks]

Hmmm... wonder if Poppy survived and is still part of the rlcoleman household.